5 ms·

The Coming War on General Purpose Computation

157 points by jamesbritt 15y ago

j_s 15y ago
Is this war not already here? Perhaps it is not counted as a war since so few are defending general purpose computation. I certainly appreciate Mr. Doctrow's willingness to help get the word out but in my opinion a presentation at the Chaos Computer Congress is preaching to the choir. [Edit:] BoingBoing is a little closer to mainstream, but there's a way to go.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  If you watch the talk, you will see that it was written for the choir. He discusses the challenges and responsibilities that we as hackers will face in future, and how they will go way beyond the current copyright wars. It was something of a call to arms basically. I was in the audience last night, and it was an excellent presentation. All of the talks I have seen so far have been excellent, and I encourage you to check out the 28c3 youtube channel, where prerelease versions of all the talks are being posted (with extremely low delays I might add.) http://youtube.com/28c3 http://youtube.com/28c3 Also, you can watch live streams here: http://28c3.fem-net.de/ http://28c3.fem-net.de/
  - j_s 15y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation. I did watch the first half hour's worth, up to the Q/A session. I didn't really hear any 'next action' though... was there any recommendation on what I should be doing about this now?
    - JonnieCache 15y ago
      Not as such, it was more of a general thing about what might (probably will) happen in the future, designed to provoke thought in the community. As he was dealing in hypotheticals, however likely they may be, there was not much talk of specific actions, as far as I remember anyway. The Q&A was also very interesting, and it included more concrete discussion of possible ways forward I think.
jamesbritt 15y ago
I certainly appreciate Mr. Doctrow's willingness to help get the word out but in my opinion a presentation at the Chaos Computer Congress is preaching to the choir. True. OTOH these sorts of events create video by-products that can be distributed to other people (though Boing-boing is likely another choir). Still, I found it interesting because of how he outlines the possible reasoning for such maneuvers (e.g. screwing with DNS is portrayed in the same light as dropping phone service for the head shop down the block), which can help folks like use when we try to explain to non-geeks why things like SOPA or walled-garden electronics are so bad.
- sneak 15y ago
  I'm the choir you're talking about, on all of his major points, and I'd never heard the term "cognitive liberty" before this video. I'd like to think I'm well-informed on these topics, too. These things are beneficial, if only for the same-page-ification that the choir requires from time to time.
nextparadigms 15y ago
We should send the video to our representatives and other SOPA/PIPA supporters. Maybe some of them will get it.
- plink 15y ago
  They will "get it" only if the video is accompanied by campaign contributions.
DrCatbox 15y ago
Its not just we vs them, as he mentions the possibility to print biological structures is kind of creepy, so some control is necessary. You wouldnt want kids printing out viruses and such far fetched scenarios. We hackers have a responsibility to not only fight against stupid laws, but to put in place sane ones, which respect freedom and privacy and also maintain public safety.
- qdog 15y ago
  I think he mentioned that as printing out biological structures that would eat Monsanto's products. You can take this to mean it is creepy, but I think he meant it was a threat to Monsanto and when Monsanto realizes this, they are going to attempt to get legislation passed.
Tycho 15y ago
Somewhat ironically, the way mobile computing is obsessed with simple 'apps' reminds me somewhat of the 'Unix philosophy' - lots of tools that do one thing, which you can chain/pipe together into workflows to great effect. I can see this taking off more if vendors and developers work more on simple 'piping' APIs. And other things like RDFs, Service-Oriented Architecture in general. And it could be so much more richer than the usual piping of text that happens in Unix. Imagine, you take a picture with your camera phone; you pipe the image to some sort of visual pattern matching program which isolates the faces in the picture; which are then uploaded to an online facial recognition service and the identities sent back to you; which are piped to a social networking app to find which people list polka as an interest; and then finally to your email/messaging program of choice so you can invite them to your monthly polka event. THEN you can save this workflow and have it execute from just a single camera shot... or have the camera input come from a surveillance camera via bluetooth.
- jamesbritt 15y ago
  lots of tools that do one thing, which you can chain/pipe together into workflows to great effect. Sounds like Android's intents.
  - stcredzero 15y ago
    I think if Apple has their way (uncertain) then everything will become a backplane for Siri.
WildUtah 15y ago
This isn't coming. A decade ago Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-Disney) ran a bill that outlawed general purpose computers and made it a federal crime to posses a compiler without a license. It's long since been here and will continue. Government officials desire the power to act with discretion to outlaw the computers they don't like and tolerate those they do. The especially want the power to decide after the fact and hold you retroactively responsible for anything they choose. The computer industry with its empowerment of the masses and startup culture is especially vulnerable to the usual bureaucratic power games so we will have to fight in order to lose our freedoms more slowly. The legislators and bureaucrats aren't stupid and they aren't ignorant of the principle of Turing Equivalence. They love the idea that every computer can be demonized and outlawed at once. They especially love the idea that every programmer must hope for the forbearance of his superior in the bureaucracy, forever focused on pleasing the big man in Washington on whose pleasure his freedom depends. It's like 1984 where Winston thinks that O'Brien will be his ally in reform because O'Brien understands the corruption, abuse, and evil of the system. Winston was wrong. The incumbents will not improve by being better informed. The horror totalitarian future you want to avoid is exactly the dream they cherish.
- noblethrasher 15y ago
  Given Hollings's legislative track record I'm inclined to believe you but do you have a source for that accusation?
  - spacemanaki 15y ago
    I was curious and went hunting, and I think it might be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Broadband_and_Digital_Television_Promotion_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Broadband_and_Digital_...
  - tzs 15y ago
    It sounds like the proposed bill that Stallman complained about at the end of his right to read story. Here's that bill: http://w2.eff.org/IP/SSSCA_CBDTPA/20020321_s2048_cbdtpa_bill.pdf http://w2.eff.org/IP/SSSCA_CBDTPA/20020321_s2048_cbdtpa_bill... However, it doesn't really match the GPs description--I don't see anything about licensing compilers.

157 points by jamesbritt 15y ago

j_s 15y ago

Is this war not already here? Perhaps it is not counted as a war since so few are defending general purpose computation. I certainly appreciate Mr. Doctrow's willingness to help get the word out but in my opinion a presentation at the Chaos Computer Congress is preaching to the choir. [Edit:] BoingBoing is a little closer to mainstream, but there's a way to go.

JonnieCache 15y ago
If you watch the talk, you will see that it was written for the choir. He discusses the challenges and responsibilities that we as hackers will face in future, and how they will go way beyond the current copyright wars. It was something of a call to arms basically. I was in the audience last night, and it was an excellent presentation. All of the talks I have seen so far have been excellent, and I encourage you to check out the 28c3 youtube channel, where prerelease versions of all the talks are being posted (with extremely low delays I might add.) http://youtube.com/28c3 http://youtube.com/28c3 Also, you can watch live streams here: http://28c3.fem-net.de/ http://28c3.fem-net.de/
- j_s 15y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation. I did watch the first half hour's worth, up to the Q/A session. I didn't really hear any 'next action' though... was there any recommendation on what I should be doing about this now?
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Not as such, it was more of a general thing about what might (probably will) happen in the future, designed to provoke thought in the community. As he was dealing in hypotheticals, however likely they may be, there was not much talk of specific actions, as far as I remember anyway. The Q&A was also very interesting, and it included more concrete discussion of possible ways forward I think.

jamesbritt 15y ago

I certainly appreciate Mr. Doctrow's willingness to help get the word out but in my opinion a presentation at the Chaos Computer Congress is preaching to the choir. True. OTOH these sorts of events create video by-products that can be distributed to other people (though Boing-boing is likely another choir). Still, I found it interesting because of how he outlines the possible reasoning for such maneuvers (e.g. screwing with DNS is portrayed in the same light as dropping phone service for the head shop down the block), which can help folks like use when we try to explain to non-geeks why things like SOPA or walled-garden electronics are so bad.

sneak 15y ago
I'm the choir you're talking about, on all of his major points, and I'd never heard the term "cognitive liberty" before this video. I'd like to think I'm well-informed on these topics, too. These things are beneficial, if only for the same-page-ification that the choir requires from time to time.

nextparadigms 15y ago

We should send the video to our representatives and other SOPA/PIPA supporters. Maybe some of them will get it.

plink 15y ago
They will "get it" only if the video is accompanied by campaign contributions.

DrCatbox 15y ago

Its not just we vs them, as he mentions the possibility to print biological structures is kind of creepy, so some control is necessary. You wouldnt want kids printing out viruses and such far fetched scenarios. We hackers have a responsibility to not only fight against stupid laws, but to put in place sane ones, which respect freedom and privacy and also maintain public safety.

qdog 15y ago
I think he mentioned that as printing out biological structures that would eat Monsanto's products. You can take this to mean it is creepy, but I think he meant it was a threat to Monsanto and when Monsanto realizes this, they are going to attempt to get legislation passed.

Tycho 15y ago

Somewhat ironically, the way mobile computing is obsessed with simple 'apps' reminds me somewhat of the 'Unix philosophy' - lots of tools that do one thing, which you can chain/pipe together into workflows to great effect. I can see this taking off more if vendors and developers work more on simple 'piping' APIs. And other things like RDFs, Service-Oriented Architecture in general. And it could be so much more richer than the usual piping of text that happens in Unix. Imagine, you take a picture with your camera phone; you pipe the image to some sort of visual pattern matching program which isolates the faces in the picture; which are then uploaded to an online facial recognition service and the identities sent back to you; which are piped to a social networking app to find which people list polka as an interest; and then finally to your email/messaging program of choice so you can invite them to your monthly polka event. THEN you can save this workflow and have it execute from just a single camera shot... or have the camera input come from a surveillance camera via bluetooth.

jamesbritt 15y ago
lots of tools that do one thing, which you can chain/pipe together into workflows to great effect. Sounds like Android's intents.
- stcredzero 15y ago
  I think if Apple has their way (uncertain) then everything will become a backplane for Siri.

WildUtah 15y ago

This isn't coming. A decade ago Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-Disney) ran a bill that outlawed general purpose computers and made it a federal crime to posses a compiler without a license. It's long since been here and will continue. Government officials desire the power to act with discretion to outlaw the computers they don't like and tolerate those they do. The especially want the power to decide after the fact and hold you retroactively responsible for anything they choose. The computer industry with its empowerment of the masses and startup culture is especially vulnerable to the usual bureaucratic power games so we will have to fight in order to lose our freedoms more slowly. The legislators and bureaucrats aren't stupid and they aren't ignorant of the principle of Turing Equivalence. They love the idea that every computer can be demonized and outlawed at once. They especially love the idea that every programmer must hope for the forbearance of his superior in the bureaucracy, forever focused on pleasing the big man in Washington on whose pleasure his freedom depends. It's like 1984 where Winston thinks that O'Brien will be his ally in reform because O'Brien understands the corruption, abuse, and evil of the system. Winston was wrong. The incumbents will not improve by being better informed. The horror totalitarian future you want to avoid is exactly the dream they cherish.

noblethrasher 15y ago
Given Hollings's legislative track record I'm inclined to believe you but do you have a source for that accusation?
- spacemanaki 15y ago
  I was curious and went hunting, and I think it might be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Broadband_and_Digital_Television_Promotion_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Broadband_and_Digital_...
- tzs 15y ago
  It sounds like the proposed bill that Stallman complained about at the end of his right to read story. Here's that bill: http://w2.eff.org/IP/SSSCA_CBDTPA/20020321_s2048_cbdtpa_bill.pdf http://w2.eff.org/IP/SSSCA_CBDTPA/20020321_s2048_cbdtpa_bill... However, it doesn't really match the GPs description--I don't see anything about licensing compilers.