3 ms·

> Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Sample size of 25 out of

> Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. Sample size of 25 out of a population of... how many tens of millions of young (EDIT: not actually young) men? Seems quite small, and perhaps not sufficient to draw any conclusions. I wonder what the results will show... > myocarditis is another manifestation reported during SARS-CoV-2-infection [24]. It is under debate whether myocarditis in COVID-19 is primarily caused by the viral infection or whether it occurs secondary as a consequence of the host´s immune response, in particular by T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity or as a consequence of the cytokine storm observed during COVID-19 [25]. Interesting! > Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis. Further studies and extended registry are needed to identify persons at risk for this potentially fatal AEFI and may be aided by detailed clinical, serological, and molecular analyses which were beyond the scope of this study. So in total, out of 25 young men, 20 showed signs of cardiac damage. It's suggestive and merits more research. On the other hand, the authors offer no real ideas about how the damage could have happened, other than to observe that since similar damage happens as a result of COVID-19, maybe the immune response is the culprit (provoked by the vaccine, similarly as by the disease). Far from any sort of smoking gun. It's important to keep that in mind.

joshuahedlund 4y ago
> out of 25 young men These were not young men > Three of the deceased persons were women, two men. Median age at death was 58 years (range 46–75 years).
- pianoben 4y ago
  My mistake; I misread something somewhere, and thought that the population was 30-and-younger men.
hammock 4y ago
>the authors offer no real ideas about how the damage could have happened They do, though. In fact that's the entirely novel value that this study brings. It's in the title: "histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination." That's a lot of words that means "we can now tell you exactly what microscopic tissue looks like following lethal jab-associated myocarditis.” And the scientists discuss how it happens. For your benefit, I'll describe it here. These mRNA-vaccinated patients suffered from heart damage because their hearts were attacked by their own immune cells. The mRNA is injected into your muscle cells, turning the cell into a factory producing COVID-19 spike proteins. As a result of the mRNA immunization, your body generates an immune response against COVID-19 spike proteins. Since your own muscle cells were used to make the COVID-19 spike proteins and may have them on the cell surface, your newly-weaponized immune cells targeting the spike protein may start attacking your own healthy muscle cells. This autoimmune attack on their own heart cells then leads to their damaged hearts beating so many times per second that, once the tachycardia unexpectedly started, they died in minutes. This new German study shows photographic evidence that this happens and has killed people
- jamespo 4y ago
  You've paraphrased into "jab-associated" which is dishonest at best.
- c1ccccc1 4y ago
  Fascinating. Without a detailed knowledge of biology, it seems like this could affect any cell type, why would heart muscle cells specifically be targeted? Are the spike proteins just more likely to get stuck to the surface of certain types of cell?
  - hammock 4y ago
    It's a good question. I believe there is some preliminary study around that, and it deserves more
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  The actual wording of the study includes this... > Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis. ... which is a much, much more cautious conclusion than you're pretending.
- pianoben 4y ago
  > And the scientists discuss how it happens. For your benefit, I'll describe it here. Condescension noted :) You've described what I understand to be a common(-ly presented online) hypothesis about how an mRNA vaccine might injure heart tissue. The study authors, on the other hand, don't claim that this is how any of the study subjects died. Indeed they explicitly disclaim any causal link between an mRNA vaccine and incidences of myocarditis. Allow me to rephrase, then - "the authors offer no real ideas about how the Covid vaccines could have caused this damage".
deleted 4y ago
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joshuahedlund 4y ago

> out of 25 young men These were not young men > Three of the deceased persons were women, two men. Median age at death was 58 years (range 46–75 years).

pianoben 4y ago
My mistake; I misread something somewhere, and thought that the population was 30-and-younger men.

hammock 4y ago

>the authors offer no real ideas about how the damage could have happened They do, though. In fact that's the entirely novel value that this study brings. It's in the title: "histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination." That's a lot of words that means "we can now tell you exactly what microscopic tissue looks like following lethal jab-associated myocarditis.” And the scientists discuss how it happens. For your benefit, I'll describe it here. These mRNA-vaccinated patients suffered from heart damage because their hearts were attacked by their own immune cells. The mRNA is injected into your muscle cells, turning the cell into a factory producing COVID-19 spike proteins. As a result of the mRNA immunization, your body generates an immune response against COVID-19 spike proteins. Since your own muscle cells were used to make the COVID-19 spike proteins and may have them on the cell surface, your newly-weaponized immune cells targeting the spike protein may start attacking your own healthy muscle cells. This autoimmune attack on their own heart cells then leads to their damaged hearts beating so many times per second that, once the tachycardia unexpectedly started, they died in minutes. This new German study shows photographic evidence that this happens and has killed people

jamespo 4y ago
You've paraphrased into "jab-associated" which is dishonest at best.
c1ccccc1 4y ago
Fascinating. Without a detailed knowledge of biology, it seems like this could affect any cell type, why would heart muscle cells specifically be targeted? Are the spike proteins just more likely to get stuck to the surface of certain types of cell?
- hammock 4y ago
  It's a good question. I believe there is some preliminary study around that, and it deserves more
ceejayoz 4y ago
The actual wording of the study includes this... > Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis. ... which is a much, much more cautious conclusion than you're pretending.
pianoben 4y ago
> And the scientists discuss how it happens. For your benefit, I'll describe it here. Condescension noted :) You've described what I understand to be a common(-ly presented online) hypothesis about how an mRNA vaccine might injure heart tissue. The study authors, on the other hand, don't claim that this is how any of the study subjects died. Indeed they explicitly disclaim any causal link between an mRNA vaccine and incidences of myocarditis. Allow me to rephrase, then - "the authors offer no real ideas about how the Covid vaccines could have caused this damage".

deleted 4y ago

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