3 ms·
The discussion here is absolutely rancid. So here are the actual the salient points from the study: > Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who h
by fzeroracer 4y ago
The discussion here is absolutely rancid. So here are the actual the salient points from the study:
> Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. In four patients who received a mRNA vaccination, we identified acute (epi-)myocarditis without detection of another significant disease or health constellation that may have caused an unexpected death.
Out of 25 people that died post-vaccination, four patients had signs of myocarditis. That's a fraction of a fraction of people.
> Myocarditis is another manifestation reported during SARS-CoV-2-infection [24]. It is under debate whether myocarditis in COVID-19 is primarily caused by the viral infection or whether it occurs secondary as a consequence of the host´s immune response, in particular by T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity or as a consequence of the cytokine storm observed during COVID-19
We don't know whether or not Myocarditis is a result of the infection or the immune response; in either scenario people who are predisposed to myocarditis would likely have similar reactions during either infection or vaccine.
> However, the vaccine against smallpox, based on a vaccinia virus, is reported to cause (epi-)myocarditis in rare cases
Smallpox vaccines can also trigger myocarditis despite being a more 'traditional' vaccine.
> The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29]. Importantly, infectious agents may also cause lymphocytic myocarditis with a similar immunophenotype, thus meticulous molecular analyses is required in all cases of potentially vaccination-associated myocarditis.
The risk factor is low and the chances of hospitalization and death from COVID-19 in even otherwise healthy people is higher versus the risk from vaccination, similar to other vaccinations.
> Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis. Further studies and extended registry are needed to identify persons at risk for this potentially fatal AEFI and may be aided by detailed clinical, serological, and molecular analyses which were beyond the scope of this study.
This is not a definitive link between the two, but rather a call for further investigation and to ensure that at-risk individuals are caught earlier and monitored.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoYes, thank you. Also, important to call out ages here: > Median age at death was 58 years (range 46–75 years). I keep seeing "young men" over and over in the comments. These are not the people being studied here.
- gfodor 4y agoIt seems obvious at this point that there is a mechanism of action of the drug in the vaccine that can harm the heart and it’s highly likely this can lead to death. It’s time to stop mandating it for kids.
- fzeroracer 4y agoObvious according to who? I literally directly addressed that claim, so I'll quote it again for you: > Myocarditis is another manifestation reported during SARS-CoV-2-infection [24]. It is under debate whether myocarditis in COVID-19 is primarily caused by the viral infection or whether it occurs secondary as a consequence of the host´s immune response, in particular by T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity or as a consequence of the cytokine storm observed during COVID-19 We don't know whether or not Myocarditis is a result of the infection or the immune response; in either scenario people who are predisposed to myocarditis would likely have similar reactions during either infection or vaccine. If myocarditis is a result of the immune system response to the spike protein then infection by COVID and/or vaccination can potentially trigger a response, with COVID likely triggering an even worse response with what we know and how it travels through the body. Additionally, as I also mentioned and will quote: > However, the vaccine against smallpox, based on a vaccinia virus, is reported to cause (epi-)myocarditis in rare cases Smallpox vaccines can also trigger myocarditis despite being a more 'traditional' vaccine. We distributed smallpox vaccines and managed to eradicate smallpox thanks to being thorough.
- gfodor 4y agoThe claim I am making is it appears likely to me that at least some of these cases are fatal, which would mean the underlying mechanism of action for this side effect of the drug can, in the worst case, cause death. This ought to influence the ethics of mandating it at a minimum.
- fzeroracer 4y agoWhat I'm saying is that the mechanism with which the vaccine can cause myocarditis might be the exact same mechanism that triggers myocarditis but worse for people who catch COVID-19, as brought up in the study. If the myocarditis is the result of the immune system's response to the spike protein then both COVID-19 and the COVID-19 vaccine will trigger myocarditis in those individuals. In this case the 'mechanism' is the same, but COVID-19 will likely trigger a far worse reaction from what we know about how the disease progresses in certain individuals. This is the exact point that the article mentions.
- tiahura 4y agoWe don't know whether or not Myocarditis is a result of the infection or the immune response; in either scenario people who are predisposed to myocarditis would likely have similar reactions during either infection or vaccine. This is the most straightforward conclusion. Some people’s hearts don’t like the immune response to Covid. Since everyone is going to get it eventually, avoiding the vax seems based on myocarditis seems illogical.