5 ms·

I'm out of the loop, where can I find background information?

eqvinox 4y ago
should be this I believe: https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ [Ed.] Somewhat reminiscent of the crypto export restrictions around the millennium — with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there... [Ed. 2] Really reminiscent… it's only few jurisdictions where software patents are valid to a large degree - I found only the US, South Korea, and Armenia. Most other countries have significant hurdles or outright do not accept software patents.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  > with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there I know the EU supposedly bans software patents, but looking at the patent pool for H.265, there's an awful lot of EU patents in there: https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf.
  - eqvinox 4y ago
    Yeah, the problem in the EU is that they are lax in checks during the patent grant process and you have to sue to invalidate those patents later, even though they never should have been granted :(
ho_schi 4y ago
https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-support-for-some-video-codecs/ https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-suppor... It is only affecting Fedora and openSuse. Not affected are Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu and Debian. * The hardware-acceleration is within the hardware and not in software - that is why it is named *hardware acceleration*. Fedoras decision doesn't make sense. * In Europe you cannot patent software - because you cannot patent logic. Sometimes software-patents are granted because the patent system is dysfunctional but these patents get revoked when challenged. * I doubt you can even defend a "software-patent" in America if challenged. * RedHat is weakening its position of Fedora (and of Linux) historically by similar decisions. Fedora is working well on desktops and laptops. But it is not acceptable for end-users to add extra repositories from RPMFUSION to get basic features working. The success of Canonicals Ubuntu is building up on this. * They're not removing it for Fedora <= 36. Removing features is evil. Ff Fedora is certain about their point-of-view they had to remove it, too? Bonus - Qualcomm tries to attack AV1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 I think someone within the AOM needs to tell Qualcomm in polite words that another decade of missing hardware-acceleration and patent-trolling is not acceptable. If you're worried about software-patents. I recommend moving the legal domicile and hosting servers to Europe. I'm sorry America but your mistake. The original intent of the patent system is proper documentation for the public. Instead it is used for hindering other upon improving existing ideas for decades. And lawsuits. PS: Fedora is working excellent on laptops on desktops. While I prefer Arch personally, I do install Fedora on every computer of a "normal" person which is not within IT. It just works. Fedora is doing a good. But only if I add RPMFUSION first.
- ladyanita22 4y ago
  Canonical is weakening their position in the Linux world with snaps. Fedora's foundations and technology are the best. I hate the RPMFusion situation, don't get me wrong, but it's the cleanest, most solid and best distro out there.
  - ho_schi 4y ago
    Canonical? * Unity - Failed against GNOME and Gtk * Mir - Failed against Wayland * Upstart - Failed against Systemd * Snap - Currently in fight against Flatpak Canonical's help and cooperation is appreciated. Since they returned to GNOME a lot of things got improved for all! I've the impression Canonical is trying to push a always an own solution which is either inferior, not backed by community or follows a dark-pattern (Snap server is closed-source). I'm afraid Ubuntu-Phone could've been a success if they searched cooperation with Red Hat, Purism or Jolla. Again...no :(
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Removing support for those particular codecs isn't the end of the world. YouTube, Disney, Netflix, Prime Video (ie. the largest video streaming sites) all use open codecs and thus are unaffected by Fedora/Suse's decision.
  - ho_schi 4y ago
    I'm afraid all of them use H264 or H265 as baseline, AV1 only when advertised. AV1 is only available hardware-accelerated on the newest devices (AMD >= RNDA2, Intel >= Xe, Nvidia >= Ampere) from 2020. Googles Pixel 6 is one of the first phones with AV1. Software support requires the CPU to do the work and drains the battery.
    - tpush 4y ago
      Don't know about the others, but at least YouTube also uses VP9, which is open and capable of being hardware decoded by most devices.

should be this I believe: https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ [Ed.] Somewhat reminiscent of the crypto export restrictions around the millennium — with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there... [Ed. 2] Really reminiscent… it's only few jurisdictions where software patents are valid to a large degree - I found only the US, South Korea, and Armenia. Most other countries have significant hurdles or outright do not accept software patents.

jcranmer 4y ago
> with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there I know the EU supposedly bans software patents, but looking at the patent pool for H.265, there's an awful lot of EU patents in there: https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf.
- eqvinox 4y ago
  Yeah, the problem in the EU is that they are lax in checks during the patent grant process and you have to sue to invalidate those patents later, even though they never should have been granted :(

ho_schi 4y ago

https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-support-for-some-video-codecs/ https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-suppor... It is only affecting Fedora and openSuse. Not affected are Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu and Debian. * The hardware-acceleration is within the hardware and not in software - that is why it is named *hardware acceleration*. Fedoras decision doesn't make sense. * In Europe you cannot patent software - because you cannot patent logic. Sometimes software-patents are granted because the patent system is dysfunctional but these patents get revoked when challenged. * I doubt you can even defend a "software-patent" in America if challenged. * RedHat is weakening its position of Fedora (and of Linux) historically by similar decisions. Fedora is working well on desktops and laptops. But it is not acceptable for end-users to add extra repositories from RPMFUSION to get basic features working. The success of Canonicals Ubuntu is building up on this. * They're not removing it for Fedora <= 36. Removing features is evil. Ff Fedora is certain about their point-of-view they had to remove it, too? Bonus - Qualcomm tries to attack AV1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 I think someone within the AOM needs to tell Qualcomm in polite words that another decade of missing hardware-acceleration and patent-trolling is not acceptable. If you're worried about software-patents. I recommend moving the legal domicile and hosting servers to Europe. I'm sorry America but your mistake. The original intent of the patent system is proper documentation for the public. Instead it is used for hindering other upon improving existing ideas for decades. And lawsuits. PS: Fedora is working excellent on laptops on desktops. While I prefer Arch personally, I do install Fedora on every computer of a "normal" person which is not within IT. It just works. Fedora is doing a good. But only if I add RPMFUSION first.

ladyanita22 4y ago
Canonical is weakening their position in the Linux world with snaps. Fedora's foundations and technology are the best. I hate the RPMFusion situation, don't get me wrong, but it's the cleanest, most solid and best distro out there.
- ho_schi 4y ago
  Canonical? * Unity - Failed against GNOME and Gtk * Mir - Failed against Wayland * Upstart - Failed against Systemd * Snap - Currently in fight against Flatpak Canonical's help and cooperation is appreciated. Since they returned to GNOME a lot of things got improved for all! I've the impression Canonical is trying to push a always an own solution which is either inferior, not backed by community or follows a dark-pattern (Snap server is closed-source). I'm afraid Ubuntu-Phone could've been a success if they searched cooperation with Red Hat, Purism or Jolla. Again...no :(
Mikeb85 4y ago
Removing support for those particular codecs isn't the end of the world. YouTube, Disney, Netflix, Prime Video (ie. the largest video streaming sites) all use open codecs and thus are unaffected by Fedora/Suse's decision.
- ho_schi 4y ago
  I'm afraid all of them use H264 or H265 as baseline, AV1 only when advertised. AV1 is only available hardware-accelerated on the newest devices (AMD >= RNDA2, Intel >= Xe, Nvidia >= Ampere) from 2020. Googles Pixel 6 is one of the first phones with AV1. Software support requires the CPU to do the work and drains the battery.
  - tpush 4y ago
    Don't know about the others, but at least YouTube also uses VP9, which is open and capable of being hardware decoded by most devices.