4 ms·

Advice on Being Managed

_8j50 4y ago
> My advice is: Don’t scheme. Be diplomatic, but just ask for what you want and give the real reason that you want it. Ummm...no. Then "Alice" in that example will eventually find out what I said and the manager and peers will think I am difficult to work with if my reason is not wanting to work with someone. A good manager has to read between the lines and understand these things without being told so outright. I can only recall one time where I complained about someone to a manager and only because I had no choice and it was affecting my work. "Don't bring your manager problems, only solutions"
- mcovalt 4y ago
  There's actually a right way to do this: pad it. The blog post gives an example response to being paired with a coworker you dislike working with: > "I'd prefer not to work with Alice again. There's a bit of a personality clash and I had trouble getting proper credit." Don't just say this. Instead, say: > "Alice is an incredibly bright person and a great developer. However, I'd prefer not to work with Alice again. There's a bit of a personality clash and I had trouble getting proper credit. I'm certain Alice will be a highly productive member of team in my absence." If you don't actually think those things about Alice, take some time, meditate on it, and find some things you do really respect about them.
  - Buttons840 4y ago
    The book Crucial Conversations says to be "100% honest, and 100% respectful". It made me reconsider what I can directly communicate. In the past I would consider 1 or 2 ways to say something and then give up, but the truth is there are hundreds of ways to communicate something and unless you've spent a lot of time actively considering them, you haven't considered them all. (Spending a lot of time passively stressing and worrying about what you want to say doesn't count, because those are probably poor thinking patterns.)
  - _8j50 4y ago
    It still paints alice in a bad way. People only care that you said bad things about them. Words are cheap until they hurt you lol. Before I had one problem, after telling that to the manager I will have at least 3 problems (+alice+manager).
    - mcovalt 4y ago
      Totally agree. I’d also say it paints yourself in a bad way since you’re showing you aren’t willing to work through your differences with Alice. No free lunch, but if you’re already committed to this approach the least you could do is be supportive of your colleagues even when you’re unwilling to work with them.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > Ummm...no Blog posts like these are depressingly predictable in terms of being a list of "if all of you would do these (often impossible) things for me, it would make my life a lot easier" without considering whether or not they actually work well for the person they're exhorting to make their lives easier (for no extra compensation, job security or status).
- maxbond 4y ago
  Unless there's strong reason to believe Alice cannot be reasoned with, it'd be better to try and work things out with her rather then immediately trying to go over her head. If I imagine bringing this to any manager I've had, I think they would hand it back to me and tell me to at least try talking to her. So what you probably want here instead of a manger is a buddy who can help you workshop and roleplay this difficult conversation so that you can be prepared to talk to Alice without coming out swinging and making her defensive, and who won't blab about your conversation. Ideally things just stay between you and Alice and you both become better coworkers for it.
commandlinefan 4y ago
> Usually, your manager won’t have conclusive proof or just won’t feel like having a giant confrontation, so they won’t say anything. But they will remember ... which is often true even when you aren't lying. Almost everybody who claims to manage by data actually manages by "feel" - or, how much do they like you personally?
dieselgate 4y ago
some good stuff here I guess but am kind of skeptical of the whole "you can be super-competent or super-pleasant" thing - not vouching for rudeness and people need to be professional but competency is a lot more important than being pleasant

> My advice is: Don’t scheme. Be diplomatic, but just ask for what you want and give the real reason that you want it. Ummm...no. Then "Alice" in that example will eventually find out what I said and the manager and peers will think I am difficult to work with if my reason is not wanting to work with someone. A good manager has to read between the lines and understand these things without being told so outright. I can only recall one time where I complained about someone to a manager and only because I had no choice and it was affecting my work. "Don't bring your manager problems, only solutions"

mcovalt 4y ago
There's actually a right way to do this: pad it. The blog post gives an example response to being paired with a coworker you dislike working with: > "I'd prefer not to work with Alice again. There's a bit of a personality clash and I had trouble getting proper credit." Don't just say this. Instead, say: > "Alice is an incredibly bright person and a great developer. However, I'd prefer not to work with Alice again. There's a bit of a personality clash and I had trouble getting proper credit. I'm certain Alice will be a highly productive member of team in my absence." If you don't actually think those things about Alice, take some time, meditate on it, and find some things you do really respect about them.
- Buttons840 4y ago
  The book Crucial Conversations says to be "100% honest, and 100% respectful". It made me reconsider what I can directly communicate. In the past I would consider 1 or 2 ways to say something and then give up, but the truth is there are hundreds of ways to communicate something and unless you've spent a lot of time actively considering them, you haven't considered them all. (Spending a lot of time passively stressing and worrying about what you want to say doesn't count, because those are probably poor thinking patterns.)
- _8j50 4y ago
  It still paints alice in a bad way. People only care that you said bad things about them. Words are cheap until they hurt you lol. Before I had one problem, after telling that to the manager I will have at least 3 problems (+alice+manager).
  - mcovalt 4y ago
    Totally agree. I’d also say it paints yourself in a bad way since you’re showing you aren’t willing to work through your differences with Alice. No free lunch, but if you’re already committed to this approach the least you could do is be supportive of your colleagues even when you’re unwilling to work with them.
commandlinefan 4y ago
> Ummm...no Blog posts like these are depressingly predictable in terms of being a list of "if all of you would do these (often impossible) things for me, it would make my life a lot easier" without considering whether or not they actually work well for the person they're exhorting to make their lives easier (for no extra compensation, job security or status).
maxbond 4y ago
Unless there's strong reason to believe Alice cannot be reasoned with, it'd be better to try and work things out with her rather then immediately trying to go over her head. If I imagine bringing this to any manager I've had, I think they would hand it back to me and tell me to at least try talking to her. So what you probably want here instead of a manger is a buddy who can help you workshop and roleplay this difficult conversation so that you can be prepared to talk to Alice without coming out swinging and making her defensive, and who won't blab about your conversation. Ideally things just stay between you and Alice and you both become better coworkers for it.

commandlinefan 4y ago

> Usually, your manager won’t have conclusive proof or just won’t feel like having a giant confrontation, so they won’t say anything. But they will remember ... which is often true even when you aren't lying. Almost everybody who claims to manage by data actually manages by "feel" - or, how much do they like you personally?

dieselgate 4y ago

some good stuff here I guess but am kind of skeptical of the whole "you can be super-competent or super-pleasant" thing - not vouching for rudeness and people need to be professional but competency is a lot more important than being pleasant