4 ms·

Bitcoin has rallied. What are crypto’s true believers still smoking?

2 points by edward 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago
Since crypto doesn't have any intrinsic value to base its prices on, it essentially follows US interest rate news and Nasdaq. Also, the occasional pump by Tether other shady stable coins.
- andirk 4y ago
  Now that it follows stonks and other traditional investments makes crypto less interesting to me, but that's just my gambling side. Its intrinsic value is that it is an avenue of transacting value outside of the reach of the exact governments and their policies (see: 2008) that caused Satoshi to create it in the first place. And Tether is a joke.
janandonly 4y ago
# There are a bunch of metrics that are very positive for bitcoin: 1. With the fall of FTX/Alameda, and previously 3AC and Celsius, more users are realizing that an old rallying cry for bitcoin still holds true: not your keys, not your coins. Every new 'generation' of users (bitcoin is in its eternal September) has to learn the same lessons as others learned before. So, you would expect to see more self custody of coins, and that is precisely what the on-chain metrics show. See also https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/mt-gox-hack/ https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/mt-gox-hack/ 2. Real-world adoption is growing with great products like Strike build on top of the fast and cheap Lightning network (one of the various second layers build on top of L1 Bitcoin). See https://bitcoinist.com/watch-jack-mallers-send-free-instant-non-reversible-10-to-nigeria/ https://bitcoinist.com/watch-jack-mallers-send-free-instant-... 3. More people realize the long view, and buy and hold for multiple years. See also https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/the-hodl-model https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/the-hodl-model
- senttoschool 4y ago
  2. Real-world adoption is growing. Real-world adoption is shrinking.
  - neb_b 4y ago
    Do you have stats for that?
- colesantiago 4y ago
  The speculative adventure of this industry full of scams has been hilarious to watch, and once hard regulations kick in all of it will go to zero. There is no legitimate real world use case for all of this. Full stop.
  - dmantis 4y ago
    Good luck safely store your money being Russian or Iranian (or other citizen of any fascist regime who is considered not a human by both his own country and westerns). Not a legitimate case, I suppose.
  - neb_b 4y ago
    What about instantly sending money to Africa very cheaply?
    - colesantiago 4y ago
      Why do you need crypto to send money to Africa when Wise and Wave exists for this for less fees?
      - neb_b 4y ago
        Using the lightning network is faster and cheaper
        colesantiago 4y ago
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
People don't get it. Bitcoin is equivalent to a religion. The believers will always believe. It's here to stay no matter what. It might fall to a fraction of its current value but people will hold on to it and buy more. The gold believers are the say way.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  In my opinion, it's like a MLM scheme. Once you buy in, you enrich the ones before you. Now you must shill and do marketing for the next buyer. It's dangerous.
  - andirk 4y ago
    There is literally zero functionality in bitcoin that states one gets richer from getting more people in. That's called supply and demand. I'm a big fan of crypto but I also see these huge peaks and valleys in valuation as a sign that it is treated as a get-rich-quick scheme by many, but bitcoin exists as a means of transacting value outside of state-owned currency. It's pretty rad, but unhinged speculation paints it as a casino. 40x valuations of the next photo sharing app is speculative and outright bullshit too but we don't say photo sharing is an MLM.
    - senttoschool 4y ago
      >That's called supply and demand. What do you think causes the demand for BTC? I'll give you a hint: FOMO. Which is perpetuated by existing Bitcoin holders. Basically like MLM.
- jfengel 4y ago
  All currency ultimately comes down to an act of faith. But in the case of fiat money, that faith is in a government that is already providing you a bunch of infrastructure, paid for in fiat currency and demanding the same fiat currency in return (taxes, tariffs, etc.) It's still a kind of faith, but it's like faith in a deity that at least intermittently actually shows up to do something. Not the kind who "works in mysterious ways" that seem indistinguishable from random chance. Cryptocurrencies rely on individuals to provide that intermittent evidence for faith. You're trusting that people will pay you for your goods and services in the currency, and will accept your currency for the goods and services they offer. (Or at least, trade it easily for a different currency that people will accept.) In theory, that could work. In practice, those people are crypto enthusiasts, who aren't really the kind of people you have a lot of faith in. Some of them are criminals, trying to take advantage of circumventing regular channels. That is, at least, a real thing -- unlike the other enthusiasts, who are in only because "line goes up" and don't have goods or services to offer for your currency. That latter faith is easily fractured -- and exists at all only because there are a lot of such people.
dmantis 4y ago
[flagged]

2 points by edward 4y ago

Since crypto doesn't have any intrinsic value to base its prices on, it essentially follows US interest rate news and Nasdaq. Also, the occasional pump by Tether other shady stable coins.

andirk 4y ago
Now that it follows stonks and other traditional investments makes crypto less interesting to me, but that's just my gambling side. Its intrinsic value is that it is an avenue of transacting value outside of the reach of the exact governments and their policies (see: 2008) that caused Satoshi to create it in the first place. And Tether is a joke.

janandonly 4y ago

# There are a bunch of metrics that are very positive for bitcoin: 1. With the fall of FTX/Alameda, and previously 3AC and Celsius, more users are realizing that an old rallying cry for bitcoin still holds true: not your keys, not your coins. Every new 'generation' of users (bitcoin is in its eternal September) has to learn the same lessons as others learned before. So, you would expect to see more self custody of coins, and that is precisely what the on-chain metrics show. See also https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/mt-gox-hack/ https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/mt-gox-hack/ 2. Real-world adoption is growing with great products like Strike build on top of the fast and cheap Lightning network (one of the various second layers build on top of L1 Bitcoin). See https://bitcoinist.com/watch-jack-mallers-send-free-instant-non-reversible-10-to-nigeria/ https://bitcoinist.com/watch-jack-mallers-send-free-instant-... 3. More people realize the long view, and buy and hold for multiple years. See also https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/the-hodl-model https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/the-hodl-model

senttoschool 4y ago
2. Real-world adoption is growing. Real-world adoption is shrinking.
- neb_b 4y ago
  Do you have stats for that?
colesantiago 4y ago
The speculative adventure of this industry full of scams has been hilarious to watch, and once hard regulations kick in all of it will go to zero. There is no legitimate real world use case for all of this. Full stop.
- dmantis 4y ago
  Good luck safely store your money being Russian or Iranian (or other citizen of any fascist regime who is considered not a human by both his own country and westerns). Not a legitimate case, I suppose.
- neb_b 4y ago
  What about instantly sending money to Africa very cheaply?
  - colesantiago 4y ago
    Why do you need crypto to send money to Africa when Wise and Wave exists for this for less fees?
    - neb_b 4y ago
      Using the lightning network is faster and cheaper
      - colesantiago 4y ago

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

People don't get it. Bitcoin is equivalent to a religion. The believers will always believe. It's here to stay no matter what. It might fall to a fraction of its current value but people will hold on to it and buy more. The gold believers are the say way.

senttoschool 4y ago
In my opinion, it's like a MLM scheme. Once you buy in, you enrich the ones before you. Now you must shill and do marketing for the next buyer. It's dangerous.
- andirk 4y ago
  There is literally zero functionality in bitcoin that states one gets richer from getting more people in. That's called supply and demand. I'm a big fan of crypto but I also see these huge peaks and valleys in valuation as a sign that it is treated as a get-rich-quick scheme by many, but bitcoin exists as a means of transacting value outside of state-owned currency. It's pretty rad, but unhinged speculation paints it as a casino. 40x valuations of the next photo sharing app is speculative and outright bullshit too but we don't say photo sharing is an MLM.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    >That's called supply and demand. What do you think causes the demand for BTC? I'll give you a hint: FOMO. Which is perpetuated by existing Bitcoin holders. Basically like MLM.
jfengel 4y ago
All currency ultimately comes down to an act of faith. But in the case of fiat money, that faith is in a government that is already providing you a bunch of infrastructure, paid for in fiat currency and demanding the same fiat currency in return (taxes, tariffs, etc.) It's still a kind of faith, but it's like faith in a deity that at least intermittently actually shows up to do something. Not the kind who "works in mysterious ways" that seem indistinguishable from random chance. Cryptocurrencies rely on individuals to provide that intermittent evidence for faith. You're trusting that people will pay you for your goods and services in the currency, and will accept your currency for the goods and services they offer. (Or at least, trade it easily for a different currency that people will accept.) In theory, that could work. In practice, those people are crypto enthusiasts, who aren't really the kind of people you have a lot of faith in. Some of them are criminals, trying to take advantage of circumventing regular channels. That is, at least, a real thing -- unlike the other enthusiasts, who are in only because "line goes up" and don't have goods or services to offer for your currency. That latter faith is easily fractured -- and exists at all only because there are a lot of such people.

dmantis 4y ago

[flagged]