5 ms·

Update on Vulkan video decoding vith open-source AMD driver RADV

77 points by jlpcsl 4y ago

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Mad props to the dev(s) working on this, you're doing God's work mate. I feel bummed by this whole Linux 'we-removed-codecs' situation, as AMD users were the only ones to feel this axing, despite the community hammering how they're the best for Linux compatibility, and ironically, Intel and Nvidia users were not affected by this decision.
- chronogram 4y ago
  I'm out of the loop, where can I find background information?
  - eqvinox 4y ago
    should be this I believe: https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ [Ed.] Somewhat reminiscent of the crypto export restrictions around the millennium — with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there... [Ed. 2] Really reminiscent… it's only few jurisdictions where software patents are valid to a large degree - I found only the US, South Korea, and Armenia. Most other countries have significant hurdles or outright do not accept software patents.
    - jcranmer 4y ago
      > with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there I know the EU supposedly bans software patents, but looking at the patent pool for H.265, there's an awful lot of EU patents in there: https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf.
      - eqvinox 4y ago
        Yeah, the problem in the EU is that they are lax in checks during the patent grant process and you have to sue to invalidate those patents later, even though they never should have been granted :(
  - ho_schi 4y ago
    https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-support-for-some-video-codecs/ https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-suppor... It is only affecting Fedora and openSuse. Not affected are Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu and Debian. * The hardware-acceleration is within the hardware and not in software - that is why it is named *hardware acceleration*. Fedoras decision doesn't make sense. * In Europe you cannot patent software - because you cannot patent logic. Sometimes software-patents are granted because the patent system is dysfunctional but these patents get revoked when challenged. * I doubt you can even defend a "software-patent" in America if challenged. * RedHat is weakening its position of Fedora (and of Linux) historically by similar decisions. Fedora is working well on desktops and laptops. But it is not acceptable for end-users to add extra repositories from RPMFUSION to get basic features working. The success of Canonicals Ubuntu is building up on this. * They're not removing it for Fedora <= 36. Removing features is evil. Ff Fedora is certain about their point-of-view they had to remove it, too? Bonus - Qualcomm tries to attack AV1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 I think someone within the AOM needs to tell Qualcomm in polite words that another decade of missing hardware-acceleration and patent-trolling is not acceptable. If you're worried about software-patents. I recommend moving the legal domicile and hosting servers to Europe. I'm sorry America but your mistake. The original intent of the patent system is proper documentation for the public. Instead it is used for hindering other upon improving existing ideas for decades. And lawsuits. PS: Fedora is working excellent on laptops on desktops. While I prefer Arch personally, I do install Fedora on every computer of a "normal" person which is not within IT. It just works. Fedora is doing a good. But only if I add RPMFUSION first.
    - ladyanita22 4y ago
      Canonical is weakening their position in the Linux world with snaps. Fedora's foundations and technology are the best. I hate the RPMFusion situation, don't get me wrong, but it's the cleanest, most solid and best distro out there.
      - ho_schi 4y ago
        Canonical? * Unity - Failed against GNOME and Gtk * Mir - Failed against Wayland * Upstart - Failed against Systemd * Snap - Currently in fight against Flatpak Canonical's help and cooperation is appreciated. Since they returned to GNOME a lot of things got improved for all! I've the impression Canonical is trying to push a always an own solution which is either inferior, not backed by community or follows a dark-pattern (Snap server is closed-source). I'm afraid Ubuntu-Phone could've been a success if they searched cooperation with Red Hat, Purism or Jolla. Again...no :(
- jacooper 4y ago
  I still have yet to get video encoding ever working on fedora with chromium, even with the mesa driver including closed codecs. It just never works, it always uses the CPU for some reason. And thats with AMD, Nvidia is a lost cause.
fulafel 4y ago
What's this doing? Is it software-decoding-on-GPU using GPU compute or is it using the hw video codec functionality through the Vulkan API?
- galad87 4y ago
  It's an API to access the HW decoders and encoders on the GPU or on some other hardware.
andrewstuart 4y ago
Can someone explain to me what this is, like I’m five years old?
- sounds 4y ago
  Vulkan adds new features by first adding an extension for the feature. Then a later version of "mainline Vulkan" will upgrade those optional extensions to include them in the non-optional API. Even then, the feature underneath it is often optional, but the API to support it is built in, leaving it up to the app to check some feature bits before using it. Specifically the vulkan extensions that Dave Airlie has implemented for AMD GPUs from TONGA to NAVI2x are: VK_KHR_video_queue VK_KHR_video_decode_queue VK_EXT_video_decode_h264 VK_EXT_video_decode_h265 But he notes that the implementation work isn't done. It's just getting started.
  - andrewstuart 4y ago
    Can someone explain to me what this is, like I’m five years old?
    - DiabloD3 4y ago
      Programmers have many secret languages they talk to computers with. This is about a secret language that allows computers to make pretty things on your screen, being used to put video on there too.
- fulafel 4y ago
  It's a someone's computer program that can make the battery last longer when watching videos, when it they finish it.
sylware 4y ago
What's going on in radv? Valve did kick out llvm with aco (which is faaaaaar less worse than the former, I wish it was plain and simple C). But now, I see some stuff (KHR "acceleration structure") pulling that horrible glslang compiler from khronos into the SDK. If hardware specific shaders are to be required for some vulkan fancy APIs where no silicium blocks is available, they should be written in GCN/RDNA|SPIR-V code with plain and simple C coded assembler.

77 points by jlpcsl 4y ago

Mad props to the dev(s) working on this, you're doing God's work mate. I feel bummed by this whole Linux 'we-removed-codecs' situation, as AMD users were the only ones to feel this axing, despite the community hammering how they're the best for Linux compatibility, and ironically, Intel and Nvidia users were not affected by this decision.

chronogram 4y ago
I'm out of the loop, where can I find background information?
- eqvinox 4y ago
  should be this I believe: https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/ [Ed.] Somewhat reminiscent of the crypto export restrictions around the millennium — with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there... [Ed. 2] Really reminiscent… it's only few jurisdictions where software patents are valid to a large degree - I found only the US, South Korea, and Armenia. Most other countries have significant hurdles or outright do not accept software patents.
  - jcranmer 4y ago
    > with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the inclusion of these features in software distributed there I know the EU supposedly bans software patents, but looking at the patent pool for H.265, there's an awful lot of EU patents in there: https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf.
    - eqvinox 4y ago
      Yeah, the problem in the EU is that they are lax in checks during the patent grant process and you have to sue to invalidate those patents later, even though they never should have been granted :(
- ho_schi 4y ago
  https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-support-for-some-video-codecs/ https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-suppor... It is only affecting Fedora and openSuse. Not affected are Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu and Debian. * The hardware-acceleration is within the hardware and not in software - that is why it is named *hardware acceleration*. Fedoras decision doesn't make sense. * In Europe you cannot patent software - because you cannot patent logic. Sometimes software-patents are granted because the patent system is dysfunctional but these patents get revoked when challenged. * I doubt you can even defend a "software-patent" in America if challenged. * RedHat is weakening its position of Fedora (and of Linux) historically by similar decisions. Fedora is working well on desktops and laptops. But it is not acceptable for end-users to add extra repositories from RPMFUSION to get basic features working. The success of Canonicals Ubuntu is building up on this. * They're not removing it for Fedora <= 36. Removing features is evil. Ff Fedora is certain about their point-of-view they had to remove it, too? Bonus - Qualcomm tries to attack AV1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975 I think someone within the AOM needs to tell Qualcomm in polite words that another decade of missing hardware-acceleration and patent-trolling is not acceptable. If you're worried about software-patents. I recommend moving the legal domicile and hosting servers to Europe. I'm sorry America but your mistake. The original intent of the patent system is proper documentation for the public. Instead it is used for hindering other upon improving existing ideas for decades. And lawsuits. PS: Fedora is working excellent on laptops on desktops. While I prefer Arch personally, I do install Fedora on every computer of a "normal" person which is not within IT. It just works. Fedora is doing a good. But only if I add RPMFUSION first.
  - ladyanita22 4y ago
    Canonical is weakening their position in the Linux world with snaps. Fedora's foundations and technology are the best. I hate the RPMFusion situation, don't get me wrong, but it's the cleanest, most solid and best distro out there.
    - ho_schi 4y ago
      Canonical? * Unity - Failed against GNOME and Gtk * Mir - Failed against Wayland * Upstart - Failed against Systemd * Snap - Currently in fight against Flatpak Canonical's help and cooperation is appreciated. Since they returned to GNOME a lot of things got improved for all! I've the impression Canonical is trying to push a always an own solution which is either inferior, not backed by community or follows a dark-pattern (Snap server is closed-source). I'm afraid Ubuntu-Phone could've been a success if they searched cooperation with Red Hat, Purism or Jolla. Again...no :(
jacooper 4y ago
I still have yet to get video encoding ever working on fedora with chromium, even with the mesa driver including closed codecs. It just never works, it always uses the CPU for some reason. And thats with AMD, Nvidia is a lost cause.

fulafel 4y ago

What's this doing? Is it software-decoding-on-GPU using GPU compute or is it using the hw video codec functionality through the Vulkan API?

galad87 4y ago
It's an API to access the HW decoders and encoders on the GPU or on some other hardware.

andrewstuart 4y ago

Can someone explain to me what this is, like I’m five years old?

sounds 4y ago
Vulkan adds new features by first adding an extension for the feature. Then a later version of "mainline Vulkan" will upgrade those optional extensions to include them in the non-optional API. Even then, the feature underneath it is often optional, but the API to support it is built in, leaving it up to the app to check some feature bits before using it. Specifically the vulkan extensions that Dave Airlie has implemented for AMD GPUs from TONGA to NAVI2x are: VK_KHR_video_queue VK_KHR_video_decode_queue VK_EXT_video_decode_h264 VK_EXT_video_decode_h265 But he notes that the implementation work isn't done. It's just getting started.
- andrewstuart 4y ago
  Can someone explain to me what this is, like I’m five years old?
  - DiabloD3 4y ago
    Programmers have many secret languages they talk to computers with. This is about a secret language that allows computers to make pretty things on your screen, being used to put video on there too.
fulafel 4y ago
It's a someone's computer program that can make the battery last longer when watching videos, when it they finish it.

sylware 4y ago

What's going on in radv? Valve did kick out llvm with aco (which is faaaaaar less worse than the former, I wish it was plain and simple C). But now, I see some stuff (KHR "acceleration structure") pulling that horrible glslang compiler from khronos into the SDK. If hardware specific shaders are to be required for some vulkan fancy APIs where no silicium blocks is available, they should be written in GCN/RDNA|SPIR-V code with plain and simple C coded assembler.