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Seems like it's supposedly written by this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte

by zppln 4y ago

themodelplumber 4y ago
Let's say all the charges on that page are true, and on the other side, take even half the allegations in his letter seriously...still, why are we treating a prisoner like this? Is it helping something?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  > why are we treating a prisoner like this? Is it helping something? Yes. It is deterring whistleblowers. The government has an interest in spying and torturing people who expose how they do that deters whistleblowing. > In the annals of national security, the Obama administration will long be remembered for its unprecedented crackdown on whistleblowers. Since 2009, it has employed the World War I–era Espionage Act a record six times to prosecute government officials suspected of leaking classified information. The latest example is John Kiriakou, a former CIA officer serving a thirty-month term in federal prison for publicly identifying an intelligence operative involved in torture. It’s a pattern: the whistleblowers are punished, sometimes severely, while the perpetrators of the crimes they expose remain free. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/obamas-crackdown-whistleblowers/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/obamas-crackdown-w...
  - rob74 4y ago
    Not sure if I would classify Schulte as a "whistleblower" - the CIA is an espionage agency, and the stuff he leaked contains details on how the CIA performs electronic espionage, i.e. how it does its job. So AFAIK it's not as if he exposed some illegal activity on the CIA's side?
    - alfiedotwtf 4y ago
      > it's not as if he exposed some illegal activity on the CIA's side? Lol. So you're saying their espionage is legal?
      - procgen 4y ago
        Espionage makes the world more predictable, and hence less dangerous.
    - dmantis 4y ago
      Hacking people and steal their data is pretty much illegal, especially if done on non-US (or other in case of other spyers) soil. There is no difference between some drug cartel mercenary and CIA agent from both legal and moral perspective of any other country citizen, and humanity and human rights are much more important than business of any particular country. At least mercenaries do that for some real value, and not some vague abstract and undefined bullshit like "national interests". Whistleblowers of any spy agencies as well organised crime organisations are heroes, if their whistles help to defend humanity from each of those criminals.
    - dontrip 4y ago
      Agreed, and the other thing to keep in mind is that he leaked all this stuff because of a personal grievance, not to expose any sort of wrongdoing. Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning had similarly corrupt motives, despite popular but misguided opinion that they are noble whistleblowers of government evil.
- somesortofthing 4y ago
  This is what decades of two parties trying to outdo each other on being "tough on crime" looks like. These punishments do act as a deterrent to whistleblowing but that's not really why they were instituted in the first place. Prisoners are a really easy demographic to throw under the bus for political gain(not like they can vote) so you get these sorts of barbaric conditions for an ever increasing subsection of the prison population.
  - pifm_guy 4y ago
    Prisoners in most countries can vote, to stop exactly things like this happening.
    - wil421 4y ago
      Prisoners can vote, it’s people with felonies in and out of jail that have a hard time voting in a lot of states.
      - joecool1029 4y ago
        Not in the US. Felon prisoners in DC, Vermont, and Maine can vote. That's it: https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-voting-rights.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-...
        wil421 4y ago
        You don’t have to be felon to be in jail/prison. There are a lot of people locked up that didn’t commit felonies.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  He was known to be edgy, anger easily, and tended toward crackpot behavior. From all outward appearances, the CIA wants to break him. This would not seem unusual for them. Wikipedia has a barebones overview. I'd probably ignore the child porn allegations - that's a common way to smear folks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte
  - _cenw 4y ago
    >I'd probably ignore the child porn allegations - that's a common way to smear folks. 'Schulte referred to the child pornography he was accused of possessing as a "victimless crime"'. Yeah, I'm not sure why you'd defend yourself like that in such a situation.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      It is a legitimate defense strategy - and one that actually has valid points, at least for stuff like anime "CSAM". IMO, societies should focus more on preventing the creation of real-life CSAM: - teach children from a young age in an appropriate way about sex including what the names of genitalia are, so that in a court examination you don't have to argue about what "down there" means, and consent. Children can only report abuse if they have a third party telling them that what they experience is not normal. - provide infrastructure for potential pedophiles to get help. In Germany, we have the campaign "Kein Täter werden" since 2005 and oh boy, that was a mess to get started due to the (justified) public stigma against pedophiles, but it ended up preventing thousands of crimes [1]. - for the US: ban home-schooling and force all children through the public or accredited private school system so that (religious) cults can't go and indoctrinate young children into being breeding mares or abuse them with virtual impunity - provide teachers with enough resources (time and training) that they can spot signs of abuse (and not just sexual, but also physical and emotional!) early on - provide get-help infrastructure nationwide: anonymous phone help lines, "safe houses" for people of all genders and ages attempting to flee domestic violence and sexual abuse, easy and equitable access to restraining orders, provide CPS with enough financial and staff resources to do their job properly... Unfortunately, the first three measures are highly politically charged and so won't pass, and the last one is expensive so it won't pass either, and as a result children all over the country end up being abused with no way of getting help or worse, not even knowing that they could get help. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kein_T%C3%A4ter_werden#Ergebnisse https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kein_T%C3%A4ter_werden#Ergebni...
- akira2501 4y ago
  You'd have to apply the same skeptical eye to his letter as well, I'd think. If the charges that he was using a smuggled phone and directly subverting the courts orders, then these could be seen as reasonable consequences of those decisions; if you assume this person is in full control of their mental health. If the charges are entirely true, then I think the fair assumption is that this person is not.

Seems like it's supposedly written by this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte

by zppln 4y ago

Seems like it's supposedly written by this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte

themodelplumber 4y ago

Let's say all the charges on that page are true, and on the other side, take even half the allegations in his letter seriously...still, why are we treating a prisoner like this? Is it helping something?

barry-cotter 4y ago
> why are we treating a prisoner like this? Is it helping something? Yes. It is deterring whistleblowers. The government has an interest in spying and torturing people who expose how they do that deters whistleblowing. > In the annals of national security, the Obama administration will long be remembered for its unprecedented crackdown on whistleblowers. Since 2009, it has employed the World War I–era Espionage Act a record six times to prosecute government officials suspected of leaking classified information. The latest example is John Kiriakou, a former CIA officer serving a thirty-month term in federal prison for publicly identifying an intelligence operative involved in torture. It’s a pattern: the whistleblowers are punished, sometimes severely, while the perpetrators of the crimes they expose remain free. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/obamas-crackdown-whistleblowers/ https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/obamas-crackdown-w...
- rob74 4y ago
  Not sure if I would classify Schulte as a "whistleblower" - the CIA is an espionage agency, and the stuff he leaked contains details on how the CIA performs electronic espionage, i.e. how it does its job. So AFAIK it's not as if he exposed some illegal activity on the CIA's side?
  - alfiedotwtf 4y ago
    > it's not as if he exposed some illegal activity on the CIA's side? Lol. So you're saying their espionage is legal?
    - procgen 4y ago
      Espionage makes the world more predictable, and hence less dangerous.
  - dmantis 4y ago
    Hacking people and steal their data is pretty much illegal, especially if done on non-US (or other in case of other spyers) soil. There is no difference between some drug cartel mercenary and CIA agent from both legal and moral perspective of any other country citizen, and humanity and human rights are much more important than business of any particular country. At least mercenaries do that for some real value, and not some vague abstract and undefined bullshit like "national interests". Whistleblowers of any spy agencies as well organised crime organisations are heroes, if their whistles help to defend humanity from each of those criminals.
  - dontrip 4y ago
    Agreed, and the other thing to keep in mind is that he leaked all this stuff because of a personal grievance, not to expose any sort of wrongdoing. Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning had similarly corrupt motives, despite popular but misguided opinion that they are noble whistleblowers of government evil.
somesortofthing 4y ago
This is what decades of two parties trying to outdo each other on being "tough on crime" looks like. These punishments do act as a deterrent to whistleblowing but that's not really why they were instituted in the first place. Prisoners are a really easy demographic to throw under the bus for political gain(not like they can vote) so you get these sorts of barbaric conditions for an ever increasing subsection of the prison population.
- pifm_guy 4y ago
  Prisoners in most countries can vote, to stop exactly things like this happening.
  - wil421 4y ago
    Prisoners can vote, it’s people with felonies in and out of jail that have a hard time voting in a lot of states.
    - joecool1029 4y ago
      Not in the US. Felon prisoners in DC, Vermont, and Maine can vote. That's it: https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-voting-rights.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-...
      - wil421 4y ago
        You don’t have to be felon to be in jail/prison. There are a lot of people locked up that didn’t commit felonies.
drewcoo 4y ago
He was known to be edgy, anger easily, and tended toward crackpot behavior. From all outward appearances, the CIA wants to break him. This would not seem unusual for them. Wikipedia has a barebones overview. I'd probably ignore the child porn allegations - that's a common way to smear folks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte
- _cenw 4y ago
  >I'd probably ignore the child porn allegations - that's a common way to smear folks. 'Schulte referred to the child pornography he was accused of possessing as a "victimless crime"'. Yeah, I'm not sure why you'd defend yourself like that in such a situation.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    It is a legitimate defense strategy - and one that actually has valid points, at least for stuff like anime "CSAM". IMO, societies should focus more on preventing the creation of real-life CSAM: - teach children from a young age in an appropriate way about sex including what the names of genitalia are, so that in a court examination you don't have to argue about what "down there" means, and consent. Children can only report abuse if they have a third party telling them that what they experience is not normal. - provide infrastructure for potential pedophiles to get help. In Germany, we have the campaign "Kein Täter werden" since 2005 and oh boy, that was a mess to get started due to the (justified) public stigma against pedophiles, but it ended up preventing thousands of crimes [1]. - for the US: ban home-schooling and force all children through the public or accredited private school system so that (religious) cults can't go and indoctrinate young children into being breeding mares or abuse them with virtual impunity - provide teachers with enough resources (time and training) that they can spot signs of abuse (and not just sexual, but also physical and emotional!) early on - provide get-help infrastructure nationwide: anonymous phone help lines, "safe houses" for people of all genders and ages attempting to flee domestic violence and sexual abuse, easy and equitable access to restraining orders, provide CPS with enough financial and staff resources to do their job properly... Unfortunately, the first three measures are highly politically charged and so won't pass, and the last one is expensive so it won't pass either, and as a result children all over the country end up being abused with no way of getting help or worse, not even knowing that they could get help. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kein_T%C3%A4ter_werden#Ergebnisse https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kein_T%C3%A4ter_werden#Ergebni...
akira2501 4y ago
You'd have to apply the same skeptical eye to his letter as well, I'd think. If the charges that he was using a smuggled phone and directly subverting the courts orders, then these could be seen as reasonable consequences of those decisions; if you assume this person is in full control of their mental health. If the charges are entirely true, then I think the fair assumption is that this person is not.