4 ms·

Im surprised they haven't loosed restrictions or threatened the union with more AI driving implementations. I have no idea how it works but for a majority of th

by ct0 4y ago

Im surprised they haven't loosed restrictions or threatened the union with more AI driving implementations. I have no idea how it works but for a majority of the route I could imagine that theyre "self-driving" in some places.

mike50 4y ago
The unions were already complaining about the elimination of support personnel on the train due to safely.
shagie 4y ago
They can't loosen the requirements for licensure or implement AI driving any more than you could do that for an airline today. Would you be ok with having having people who haven't been licensed as pilots flying? Or only having one pilot flying ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33937973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33937973 )? With a 'self driving' train that's a mile long... what happens when you have a train derailment that doesn't sever the cords and things go wrong? https://youtu.be/YQMZPB_rVJ0 https://youtu.be/YQMZPB_rVJ0 There is positive train control ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control ) but that represents a significant investment in rails that are owned by companies... but it doesn't remove the responsibility of a human - it just reduces the spots where human error can cause problems.
thatfrenchguy 4y ago
Self driving freight trains are basically impossible given the rails they run on
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  About 99 out of every 100 train cars are self-driving. Removing the last one driver per train just isn't cost effective.
  - shagie 4y ago
    Aside: https://www.aar.org/article/freight-rail-crew-size-regulations/ https://www.aar.org/article/freight-rail-crew-size-regulatio... > Efforts to require at least two-person crews, including via regulation, lack a safety justification; ignore the decades of safe and successful use of single-person crews at some U.S. freight railroads and in passenger and freight rail systems throughout the world; upend meaningful collective bargaining, and undermine the rail industry’s ability to compete against less climate-friendly forms of transportation. > Freight Rail Policy Stance: The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) should not impose minimum crew size mandates on railroad operations. A mandate is unsupported by any clear safety justification. > Existing FRA regulations do not mandate minimum crew staffing requirements. For Class I railroads, recent industry practice has been to have two-person crews (a certified locomotive engineer and a certified conductor) in the locomotive cab for most over-the-road mainline operations. However, some non-Class I railroads have long operated with just one person in the locomotive cab, and thousands of Amtrak and commuter passenger trains, carrying hundreds of thousands of passengers, operate every day with just one person in the locomotive cab. And as an Oliver Wyman study found, these railroads’ safety records are comparable to two-person operations. --- And the most recent proposal on the subject: https://railroads.dot.gov/newsroom/press-releases/fra-issues-proposed-rule-enhance-train-safety-codify-train-crew-size-0 https://railroads.dot.gov/newsroom/press-releases/fra-issues... (there is a fair bit of material out there on the subject)

by ct0 4y ago

mike50 4y ago

The unions were already complaining about the elimination of support personnel on the train due to safely.

shagie 4y ago

They can't loosen the requirements for licensure or implement AI driving any more than you could do that for an airline today. Would you be ok with having having people who haven't been licensed as pilots flying? Or only having one pilot flying ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33937973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33937973 )? With a 'self driving' train that's a mile long... what happens when you have a train derailment that doesn't sever the cords and things go wrong? https://youtu.be/YQMZPB_rVJ0 https://youtu.be/YQMZPB_rVJ0 There is positive train control ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control ) but that represents a significant investment in rails that are owned by companies... but it doesn't remove the responsibility of a human - it just reduces the spots where human error can cause problems.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago

Self driving freight trains are basically impossible given the rails they run on

TheCoelacanth 4y ago
About 99 out of every 100 train cars are self-driving. Removing the last one driver per train just isn't cost effective.
- shagie 4y ago
  Aside: https://www.aar.org/article/freight-rail-crew-size-regulations/ https://www.aar.org/article/freight-rail-crew-size-regulatio... > Efforts to require at least two-person crews, including via regulation, lack a safety justification; ignore the decades of safe and successful use of single-person crews at some U.S. freight railroads and in passenger and freight rail systems throughout the world; upend meaningful collective bargaining, and undermine the rail industry’s ability to compete against less climate-friendly forms of transportation. > Freight Rail Policy Stance: The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) should not impose minimum crew size mandates on railroad operations. A mandate is unsupported by any clear safety justification. > Existing FRA regulations do not mandate minimum crew staffing requirements. For Class I railroads, recent industry practice has been to have two-person crews (a certified locomotive engineer and a certified conductor) in the locomotive cab for most over-the-road mainline operations. However, some non-Class I railroads have long operated with just one person in the locomotive cab, and thousands of Amtrak and commuter passenger trains, carrying hundreds of thousands of passengers, operate every day with just one person in the locomotive cab. And as an Oliver Wyman study found, these railroads’ safety records are comparable to two-person operations. --- And the most recent proposal on the subject: https://railroads.dot.gov/newsroom/press-releases/fra-issues-proposed-rule-enhance-train-safety-codify-train-crew-size-0 https://railroads.dot.gov/newsroom/press-releases/fra-issues... (there is a fair bit of material out there on the subject)