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Consensus from the two AV articles today seems to be that Tesla, despite releasing more data to the public on their FSD system, is evil, incompetent and endange

by kolbe 4y ago

Consensus from the two AV articles today seems to be that Tesla, despite releasing more data to the public on their FSD system, is evil, incompetent and endangering society (the data doesn't say so, but just the fact that Tesla won't release even more data is shady). Whereas Waymo making a PR statement with no substance is proof Tesla will fail and Waymo will save us.

bhauer 4y ago
I wish HN would be better than that, but your summary is perfect.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  What's your response to the fact that Tesla's data is actually very bad? [1] [1]https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1602774335244177408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1602774341602639872%7Ctwgr%5E9e16bdc8a6b7142ed50710d0137c877d41002242%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Felectrek.co%2F2022%2F12%2F14%2Ftesla-full-self-driving-data-awful-challenge-elon-musk-prove-otherwise%2F https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1602774335244177408?re...
RC_ITR 4y ago
>Consensus from the two AV articles today Consensus from informed industry observers who are sounding the alarm bells about how dangerous Tesla's approach is from a first-principles standpoint The "data" Tesla released is a meaningless attempt to pull the wool over your eyes.
enragedcacti 4y ago
> Tesla, despite releasing far more data to the public on their FSD system, The same Tesla who argues to the California DMV that FSD is a level 2 system to dodge reporting requirements? The Tesla who has a major EV outlet demanding that they release meaningful disengagement data? [1] Perhaps I missed something but I really have no idea what data you could be talking about, unless by "data" you mean access to the FSD beta. [1] https://electrek.co/2022/12/14/tesla-full-self-driving-data-awful-challenge-elon-musk-prove-otherwise/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/14/tesla-full-self-driving-data-...
- kolbe 4y ago
  Tesla themselves released safety data quarterly for years. I don't know why it stopped, but internet guesses range from Tesla is a fraud to the NHTSA started to question its accuracy, and they pulled it for liability reason. Tesla actually updates miles driven on Twitter. And going on YouTube, you can find endless videos of user experiences. I said thousands of hours before, but it very well could be hundreds of thousands of hours. Find anything on Waymo. The NHTSA released autopilot and AV vehicle crash data in raw number of crashes, and I wanted to normalize both Tesla and Waymo somehow, and I couldn't find anything from Waymo other than some repeated claim of "over 20 million miles" which dates back years. If it is only 20 million, then Waymo is insanely dangerous, and no one should be defending them, but I have a feeling they're into the hundreds of millions at this point. Also, look up similar YouTube experiences. Waymo has almost nothing--a few people following their vehicles
  - enragedcacti 4y ago
    > Tesla themselves released safety data quarterly for years. The reports they have released have been pretty rudimentary and therefore misleading. I'm glad they released the data when they did and they should keep doing it and expand it to FSD beta with disengagements: https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1488673180403191808 https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1488673180403191808 > you can find endless videos of user experiences. I said thousands of hours before, but it very well could be hundreds of thousands of hours. I don't really give Tesla all that much credit for allowing their users to publish video of them using the software and hardware that they paid for, especially when they have asked users to consider Tesla's reputation when choosing what to publish. Further, while videos can reveal interesting qualitative information, they are a really bad substitute for the quantitative data that Tesla is already sitting on and choosing not to release. Reports for every AV company that tests in CA (except Tesla): https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/autonomous-vehicles/disengagement-reports/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/auto...

by kolbe 4y ago

bhauer 4y ago

I wish HN would be better than that, but your summary is perfect.

RC_ITR 4y ago
What's your response to the fact that Tesla's data is actually very bad? [1] [1]https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1602774335244177408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1602774341602639872%7Ctwgr%5E9e16bdc8a6b7142ed50710d0137c877d41002242%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Felectrek.co%2F2022%2F12%2F14%2Ftesla-full-self-driving-data-awful-challenge-elon-musk-prove-otherwise%2F https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1602774335244177408?re...

RC_ITR 4y ago

>Consensus from the two AV articles today Consensus from informed industry observers who are sounding the alarm bells about how dangerous Tesla's approach is from a first-principles standpoint The "data" Tesla released is a meaningless attempt to pull the wool over your eyes.

enragedcacti 4y ago

> Tesla, despite releasing far more data to the public on their FSD system, The same Tesla who argues to the California DMV that FSD is a level 2 system to dodge reporting requirements? The Tesla who has a major EV outlet demanding that they release meaningful disengagement data? [1] Perhaps I missed something but I really have no idea what data you could be talking about, unless by "data" you mean access to the FSD beta. [1] https://electrek.co/2022/12/14/tesla-full-self-driving-data-awful-challenge-elon-musk-prove-otherwise/ https://electrek.co/2022/12/14/tesla-full-self-driving-data-...

kolbe 4y ago
Tesla themselves released safety data quarterly for years. I don't know why it stopped, but internet guesses range from Tesla is a fraud to the NHTSA started to question its accuracy, and they pulled it for liability reason. Tesla actually updates miles driven on Twitter. And going on YouTube, you can find endless videos of user experiences. I said thousands of hours before, but it very well could be hundreds of thousands of hours. Find anything on Waymo. The NHTSA released autopilot and AV vehicle crash data in raw number of crashes, and I wanted to normalize both Tesla and Waymo somehow, and I couldn't find anything from Waymo other than some repeated claim of "over 20 million miles" which dates back years. If it is only 20 million, then Waymo is insanely dangerous, and no one should be defending them, but I have a feeling they're into the hundreds of millions at this point. Also, look up similar YouTube experiences. Waymo has almost nothing--a few people following their vehicles
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  > Tesla themselves released safety data quarterly for years. The reports they have released have been pretty rudimentary and therefore misleading. I'm glad they released the data when they did and they should keep doing it and expand it to FSD beta with disengagements: https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1488673180403191808 https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1488673180403191808 > you can find endless videos of user experiences. I said thousands of hours before, but it very well could be hundreds of thousands of hours. I don't really give Tesla all that much credit for allowing their users to publish video of them using the software and hardware that they paid for, especially when they have asked users to consider Tesla's reputation when choosing what to publish. Further, while videos can reveal interesting qualitative information, they are a really bad substitute for the quantitative data that Tesla is already sitting on and choosing not to release. Reports for every AV company that tests in CA (except Tesla): https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/autonomous-vehicles/disengagement-reports/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-industry-services/auto...