5 ms·

I realize this is essentially a PR piece, but still, it makes me feel much better about the potential future of automated driving than what Tesla is doing. If

I realize this is essentially a PR piece, but still, it makes me feel much better about the potential future of automated driving than what Tesla is doing. If I owned TSLA right now I'd sell.

tantalor 4y ago
You can buy puts.
- concordDance 4y ago
  The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
  - jsolson 4y ago
    If you're buying puts you have bounded risk (the amount you invested), albeit with a more cliff-like risk profile than other strategies.
    - ihattendorf 4y ago
      In this case replace "you can remain solvent" with "the put remains valid".
    - JamesSwift 4y ago
      As well as a time/volatility element added so its not necessarily "TSLA went down a lot, so you profit a lot".
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    The argument literally everybody always makes and 99.99% they are simply wrong and don't want to admit it.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Options are gambling, which is not how I play the market. Aside from some lucky YOLOs, you are far more likely to lose money in that game.
Robotbeat 4y ago
Will I ever be able to have self driving on a personal vehicle, or is this just centralized automating the work of a taxi driver? IMHO, these are two very different things for the consumer. This is why I actually prefer the Tesla approach, or actually Comma AI. (If it can be made to work robustly…) It would suck to be in a world where the only way to do self-driving is indistinguishable from the Uber or taxi service we already have (and likely wouldn’t even be cheaper if it’s proprietary to one or two mega-companies who can extract nearly all the productivity surplus from this as monopoly rents).
- i_love_cookies 4y ago
  tbh car ownership for day-to-day is kind of silly, leave it to more commercial use and enthusiasts i may be biased since i use public transit or bike for everything
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    Having just had to get around quite a bit via walking and scootering, I’m definitely not excited about a future totally without personal cars. This works very well if you’re childless or if you live in a place like Manhattan (loved the subway there) or with excellent weather, but it’s just not the same as the personal room and safe area with your personal belongings that a personally owned car provides.
    - waboremo 4y ago
      What's the difference from a (better maintained) taxi service? Especially one that in this hypothetical future, would be driverless. In general I think the trend of personal car ownership is something that will become somewhat of a hobby rather than a daily necessity, even outside of cities as long as Waymo (and others) are able to actually achieve their ambitious goals. The only way I see that reversing is if people are forced to live out of their cars due to absurd home costs, which is a very very bleak future.
      - 4y ago
aeternum 4y ago
A canned test should not make you feel better. This could be the first time they actually passed the test. They might still fail with a cardboard cutout half the size.
teacpde 4y ago
Not to defend TSLA, but I don’t think self driving is the reason why Tesla cars sell, it is more about being arguably the best mass produced EV out there.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > more about being arguably the best mass produced EV out there. In 2018 this would be a really good argument. What does Tesla do better now, compared to another modern purpose built EV, for example a Ford Mustang Mach E, or a Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, etc? I struggle to identify any particular feature I would say they are better at, much less something that would make it the best mass produced EV. I say this as a two-time Model 3 owner, having just bought the most recent one two weeks ago. I don't quite have buyers remorse yet, but it's nagging at me that I may have just made a foolish choice for the wrong reasons.
  - janalsncm 4y ago
    The fact that you don’t have to go through a dealership is a huge selling point for me. No markup, no dealing with high pressure sales tactics. Just buy it online. As someone in the EV market I almost went for a Tesla for this reason.
    - rippercushions 4y ago
      Polestar (Volvo's EV spinoff) has copied this piece of the Tesla playbook, and their cars are pretty competitive in features and price as well. But the Polestar 2 is also much more "traditional" vehicle than Teslas, and most all reviews rate its closest competitor the Tesla 3 more highly.
  - lallysingh 4y ago
    I think Tesla's charging network is a nice part of the package. I'm pretty worried about going EV -- I'm not going tesla, because I don't like the way they look -- mostly about dealing with finding charging stations that work (and well) when I need them.

I realize this is essentially a PR piece, but still, it makes me feel much better about the potential future of automated driving than what Tesla is doing. If I owned TSLA right now I'd sell.

tantalor 4y ago

You can buy puts.

concordDance 4y ago
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
- jsolson 4y ago
  If you're buying puts you have bounded risk (the amount you invested), albeit with a more cliff-like risk profile than other strategies.
  - ihattendorf 4y ago
    In this case replace "you can remain solvent" with "the put remains valid".
  - JamesSwift 4y ago
    As well as a time/volatility element added so its not necessarily "TSLA went down a lot, so you profit a lot".
- panick21_ 4y ago
  The argument literally everybody always makes and 99.99% they are simply wrong and don't want to admit it.
rootusrootus 4y ago
Options are gambling, which is not how I play the market. Aside from some lucky YOLOs, you are far more likely to lose money in that game.

Robotbeat 4y ago

Will I ever be able to have self driving on a personal vehicle, or is this just centralized automating the work of a taxi driver? IMHO, these are two very different things for the consumer. This is why I actually prefer the Tesla approach, or actually Comma AI. (If it can be made to work robustly…) It would suck to be in a world where the only way to do self-driving is indistinguishable from the Uber or taxi service we already have (and likely wouldn’t even be cheaper if it’s proprietary to one or two mega-companies who can extract nearly all the productivity surplus from this as monopoly rents).

i_love_cookies 4y ago
tbh car ownership for day-to-day is kind of silly, leave it to more commercial use and enthusiasts i may be biased since i use public transit or bike for everything
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  Having just had to get around quite a bit via walking and scootering, I’m definitely not excited about a future totally without personal cars. This works very well if you’re childless or if you live in a place like Manhattan (loved the subway there) or with excellent weather, but it’s just not the same as the personal room and safe area with your personal belongings that a personally owned car provides.
  - waboremo 4y ago
    What's the difference from a (better maintained) taxi service? Especially one that in this hypothetical future, would be driverless. In general I think the trend of personal car ownership is something that will become somewhat of a hobby rather than a daily necessity, even outside of cities as long as Waymo (and others) are able to actually achieve their ambitious goals. The only way I see that reversing is if people are forced to live out of their cars due to absurd home costs, which is a very very bleak future.
    - 4y ago

aeternum 4y ago

A canned test should not make you feel better. This could be the first time they actually passed the test. They might still fail with a cardboard cutout half the size.

teacpde 4y ago

Not to defend TSLA, but I don’t think self driving is the reason why Tesla cars sell, it is more about being arguably the best mass produced EV out there.

rootusrootus 4y ago
> more about being arguably the best mass produced EV out there. In 2018 this would be a really good argument. What does Tesla do better now, compared to another modern purpose built EV, for example a Ford Mustang Mach E, or a Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, etc? I struggle to identify any particular feature I would say they are better at, much less something that would make it the best mass produced EV. I say this as a two-time Model 3 owner, having just bought the most recent one two weeks ago. I don't quite have buyers remorse yet, but it's nagging at me that I may have just made a foolish choice for the wrong reasons.
- janalsncm 4y ago
  The fact that you don’t have to go through a dealership is a huge selling point for me. No markup, no dealing with high pressure sales tactics. Just buy it online. As someone in the EV market I almost went for a Tesla for this reason.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    Polestar (Volvo's EV spinoff) has copied this piece of the Tesla playbook, and their cars are pretty competitive in features and price as well. But the Polestar 2 is also much more "traditional" vehicle than Teslas, and most all reviews rate its closest competitor the Tesla 3 more highly.
- lallysingh 4y ago
  I think Tesla's charging network is a nice part of the package. I'm pretty worried about going EV -- I'm not going tesla, because I don't like the way they look -- mostly about dealing with finding charging stations that work (and well) when I need them.