3 ms·

The difference is that they're explicitly allowing the driver to stop paying attention to driving, which reduces fatigue, wasted time etc. It's actual level 3 s

by ummonk 4y ago

The difference is that they're explicitly allowing the driver to stop paying attention to driving, which reduces fatigue, wasted time etc. It's actual level 3 self-driving tech rather than mere driver assistance tech. Of course, other driver assistance systems might be close to on par with it, but a system that successfully navigates stop and go traffic 99% of the time is very different from a system that successfully navigates stop and go traffic 100% of the time, in terms of driver attention required.

slg 4y ago
I'm not sure level 3 is any safer than level 2. Level 3 still requires a driver to intervene if the car requests it. But going from not paying attention to driving isn't something that can happen instantly. Imagine you are playing some game on your phone and alarms start going off in the car. You need to be able to process what those alarms are saying, assess the situation, and take control of the car. How quickly can people do that? Likely not fast enough to avoid any urgent issues. A driver in a level 2 system should already be paying attention so they should be able to respond quicker. And yes, I understand that drivers can get lazy with a level 2 system. But if the selling point of Mercedes is taking over liability from the driver, I am mostly concerned how the system would benefit me as a driver and I regularly use my car's level 2 features while paying attention.
- burnished 4y ago
  I think for the proscribed use case the situation where you require human intervention is where the traffic jam clears up and it’s time to drive at highway speed again. Not an emergency. I’m having a hard time imagining a situation where you would need to speedily regain complete control to avert a crisis that a human wouldn’t already fail.
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  I find the distinction between level 2 and level 3 to be unhelpful. How long do humans have to take over? Anything less than 20 seconds is not very feasible IMO. Taking liability is an interesting PR move, but I don't think it matters in stop and go traffic where speeds are relatively low and damage is typically minimal if any.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    Collisions at 40mph / 60km/h are no laughing matter. And as far as I understand, the Mercedes system will let you know well ahead of time if you have to take over, as that would only be required as you leave the designated area. Taking over to drive faster than the limit for drive pilot would never be a requirement.
  - ummonk 4y ago
    If 10 seconds isn’t enough to orient yourself and take over after the car alerts you to do so, you shouldn’t be driving a car.
  - onphonenow 4y ago
    With level 2 you must be CONSTANTLY paying attention. With level 3 you can NOT pay attention, and car will bing / bong you to pay attention. If you can't get your hands on the wheel in 20 seconds that's pathetic. I'd be able to get onto wheel in 5 seconds or so, but I'd like to be just chilling with my podcast until then (I'll still be looking at road, just not worrying about watching for stuff).
    - diebeforei485 4y ago
      It's not about getting your hands on the wheel. It's about knowing whether to brake or speed up, and which direction to swerve. If the system is confused by the scenario and wants you to take over, it's presumably not as simple as maneuvering around a parked van on the shoulder - it's going to be in a complex scenario. If you've been playing an immersive game on your Steam Deck (or a VR headset), yeah good luck good with knowing what to do when the car bing/bongs you. If you think people shouldn't play games, what exactly does "you can NOT pay attention" mean? If the difference is solely liability - that's great but it doesn't make a difference to people in other vehicles (or to pedestrians).
- froh 4y ago
  the difference is that level 2 requires you to take over at any time, immediately, while level 3 allows you to do something else and gives you some time (for drive pilot: 10 seconds) to take over. 10 seconds is quite some time in contrast to

by ummonk 4y ago

slg 4y ago

I'm not sure level 3 is any safer than level 2. Level 3 still requires a driver to intervene if the car requests it. But going from not paying attention to driving isn't something that can happen instantly. Imagine you are playing some game on your phone and alarms start going off in the car. You need to be able to process what those alarms are saying, assess the situation, and take control of the car. How quickly can people do that? Likely not fast enough to avoid any urgent issues. A driver in a level 2 system should already be paying attention so they should be able to respond quicker. And yes, I understand that drivers can get lazy with a level 2 system. But if the selling point of Mercedes is taking over liability from the driver, I am mostly concerned how the system would benefit me as a driver and I regularly use my car's level 2 features while paying attention.

burnished 4y ago
I think for the proscribed use case the situation where you require human intervention is where the traffic jam clears up and it’s time to drive at highway speed again. Not an emergency. I’m having a hard time imagining a situation where you would need to speedily regain complete control to avert a crisis that a human wouldn’t already fail.
diebeforei485 4y ago
I find the distinction between level 2 and level 3 to be unhelpful. How long do humans have to take over? Anything less than 20 seconds is not very feasible IMO. Taking liability is an interesting PR move, but I don't think it matters in stop and go traffic where speeds are relatively low and damage is typically minimal if any.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  Collisions at 40mph / 60km/h are no laughing matter. And as far as I understand, the Mercedes system will let you know well ahead of time if you have to take over, as that would only be required as you leave the designated area. Taking over to drive faster than the limit for drive pilot would never be a requirement.
- ummonk 4y ago
  If 10 seconds isn’t enough to orient yourself and take over after the car alerts you to do so, you shouldn’t be driving a car.
- onphonenow 4y ago
  With level 2 you must be CONSTANTLY paying attention. With level 3 you can NOT pay attention, and car will bing / bong you to pay attention. If you can't get your hands on the wheel in 20 seconds that's pathetic. I'd be able to get onto wheel in 5 seconds or so, but I'd like to be just chilling with my podcast until then (I'll still be looking at road, just not worrying about watching for stuff).
  - diebeforei485 4y ago
    It's not about getting your hands on the wheel. It's about knowing whether to brake or speed up, and which direction to swerve. If the system is confused by the scenario and wants you to take over, it's presumably not as simple as maneuvering around a parked van on the shoulder - it's going to be in a complex scenario. If you've been playing an immersive game on your Steam Deck (or a VR headset), yeah good luck good with knowing what to do when the car bing/bongs you. If you think people shouldn't play games, what exactly does "you can NOT pay attention" mean? If the difference is solely liability - that's great but it doesn't make a difference to people in other vehicles (or to pedestrians).
froh 4y ago
the difference is that level 2 requires you to take over at any time, immediately, while level 3 allows you to do something else and gives you some time (for drive pilot: 10 seconds) to take over. 10 seconds is quite some time in contrast to