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still almost 100% techies in India never prefer or think about joining ISRO/DRDO which are world-class research organizations.

seshagiric 18y ago
Not entirely right. Before the software industry's success in India, most engineers would either aim for ISRO/DRDO or other niche government organizations. The software industry simply offers better prospects - better pay and faster career growth.
- arjungmenon 18y ago
  Partially true; because even before the software boom, most techies aimed at working in a foreign country (like the US) where they would be much more well-payed.
jyothi 18y ago
I wonder the same. I myself would so much love to be at ISRO/DRDO. They have tons of other facilities to match the high pay at software companies. I wish they had better ways of recruiting people with merit and passion. They are full of either Brahmins or SC/ST and people who are recruited through references.
- sundeep 18y ago
  > full of either Brahmins or SC/ST thank you for bringing your prejudices here. do you have any numbers to back that up? > people who are recruited through references this need not be a bad thing ,which is why most companies have a internal referral program.
  - jyothi 18y ago
    I thought I shall mail you instead but couldn't find a contact or any useful information on your profile page. Please walk into IISc and you shall know. It is not merely about the number it is about the people who would control the system. I agree the divide based on caste is gradually lowering however we are still not there yet. It is a fact that all of these research institutes are concentrated in the south - IISc, ISRO, DRDO (and the rest in CV RamanNagar, Bangalore) and casteism has always been the problem here. NASA has a large number of Indians. I am sure Indian Research would be in a lot better state if they evangelize and hire more youngsters. We definitely have a smart bunch of people in pure sciences than in business. Why do you think we cannot retain them here in India ?
    - known 18y ago
      India will comprehensively prosper when 85% of all registered marriages are Inter-Caste or Inter-Religious.
    - sundeep 18y ago
      you are bringing up two very different things here. 1) you said IISC was " full of either Brahmins or SC/ST" , and when asked to back it up , you're saying "Please walk into IISc and you shall know". That means nothing. You can either prove it or you cant. It seems like you cant,so lets drop it. 2) "We definitely have a smart bunch of people in pure sciences than in business. Why do you think we cannot retain them here in India ?" This is a very interesting question to me. And it seems like you are playing a very important part in retaining "smart" people by organizing/being involved in things like Barcamp.in etc.
- vrs 18y ago
  > full of either Brahmins or SC/ST These are contradictory. I think you need to pick one and make up your mind on who to blame. By "full of brahmins" you are implying the that the forward class controls the power, has a strangle hold keeping down the lower castes. But if that were the case the SC/STs - the lowest of the low per the caste system - wouldn't be there. The presence of SC/STs implies that the system of reservation (whether you agree with it or not) is working and the forward class doesn't have a strangle hold (esp considering that OBCs also have reservations). By "full of SC/ST" you are insinuating that the place is full of people who are there because of reservation (ie affirmative action) who don't really deserve to be there. But the presence of brahmins would imply that some people are actually getting in because of merit because the brahmins don't have any reservation whatsoever anywhere. So again, the system, albeit flawed, seems to be working. If these places were somehow oscillating between power hungry brahmins trying to keep everybody else down and undeserving SC/STs I doubt that they would be a cohesive group doing good work which they seem to be. Maybe you are just missing people of your background/religion/caste/language/area? I presume you are neither a Brahmin nor a SC/ST? You also mentioned in your follow up post that these institution are in the south and casteism is always a problem there as if in comparison to the rest of the country. Casteism is a problem all over India and the following is not to justify it in any sense. But if anything I would say the south is probably better off than the rest of the country. The population of forward castes is below average overall so the lower castes have a much bigger voice democratically. This is also why TN had till very recently a 69% reservation and anti-reservation riots are a bigger deal in the North (remember the Mandal protests?) than in the south. Communal polarization too is in general higher in the North. Bangalore is usually considered a very cosmopolitan/diverse city and having lived there (and not being a native) I agree. From a comparison of the different regions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_rankings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_rankings ) the south overall seems to be doing better than the rest of India. The southern states are doing above average (and in many cases close to the top) economically, in literacy, infrastructure etc. The three top "technological centres" of India that one hears about mostly - Bangalore, Chennai and Hyderdabad - are also in the south. This inspite of the fact that India has mostly has Prime Ministers from the North (except for two - one of whom - P. V Narasimha Rao - is considered instrumental for our economic liberalization along with our current PM who was then the finance minister). So seems like these states have managed to have better governance. None of these are direct indications of casteism rates and I'm not trying to say that things are just fine in the south and there is no casteism. In general, it seems to me that economic growth/quality of life/good governance etc are indicators of reduced polarization. I don't have numbers to back that up, just an impression. My general impression is that while casteism definitely exists in the south, things are probably better there.
plinkplonk 18y ago
"still almost 100% techies in India never prefer or think about joining ISRO/DRDO which are world-class research organizations." I've consulted for both the DRDO and the ISRO on some very technical projects. You are partially right. Manpower is a problem in both organizations, with the best people going to the United States. That said "world-class research organizations" is a bit of a stretch. There are specific departments which do world class research, but by and large ISRO and DRDO are far from that ideal. Plenty of "scientists" pushing paper and just wasting time in the office and waiting for 5 o clock in the evening so they can go home. Being part of the Indian government, the wastage of resources is appalling (to someone who's worked in the private sector / run his own business)

seshagiric 18y ago

Not entirely right. Before the software industry's success in India, most engineers would either aim for ISRO/DRDO or other niche government organizations. The software industry simply offers better prospects - better pay and faster career growth.

arjungmenon 18y ago
Partially true; because even before the software boom, most techies aimed at working in a foreign country (like the US) where they would be much more well-payed.

jyothi 18y ago

I wonder the same. I myself would so much love to be at ISRO/DRDO. They have tons of other facilities to match the high pay at software companies. I wish they had better ways of recruiting people with merit and passion. They are full of either Brahmins or SC/ST and people who are recruited through references.

sundeep 18y ago
> full of either Brahmins or SC/ST thank you for bringing your prejudices here. do you have any numbers to back that up? > people who are recruited through references this need not be a bad thing ,which is why most companies have a internal referral program.
- jyothi 18y ago
  I thought I shall mail you instead but couldn't find a contact or any useful information on your profile page. Please walk into IISc and you shall know. It is not merely about the number it is about the people who would control the system. I agree the divide based on caste is gradually lowering however we are still not there yet. It is a fact that all of these research institutes are concentrated in the south - IISc, ISRO, DRDO (and the rest in CV RamanNagar, Bangalore) and casteism has always been the problem here. NASA has a large number of Indians. I am sure Indian Research would be in a lot better state if they evangelize and hire more youngsters. We definitely have a smart bunch of people in pure sciences than in business. Why do you think we cannot retain them here in India ?
  - known 18y ago
    India will comprehensively prosper when 85% of all registered marriages are Inter-Caste or Inter-Religious.
  - sundeep 18y ago
    you are bringing up two very different things here. 1) you said IISC was " full of either Brahmins or SC/ST" , and when asked to back it up , you're saying "Please walk into IISc and you shall know". That means nothing. You can either prove it or you cant. It seems like you cant,so lets drop it. 2) "We definitely have a smart bunch of people in pure sciences than in business. Why do you think we cannot retain them here in India ?" This is a very interesting question to me. And it seems like you are playing a very important part in retaining "smart" people by organizing/being involved in things like Barcamp.in etc.
vrs 18y ago
> full of either Brahmins or SC/ST These are contradictory. I think you need to pick one and make up your mind on who to blame. By "full of brahmins" you are implying the that the forward class controls the power, has a strangle hold keeping down the lower castes. But if that were the case the SC/STs - the lowest of the low per the caste system - wouldn't be there. The presence of SC/STs implies that the system of reservation (whether you agree with it or not) is working and the forward class doesn't have a strangle hold (esp considering that OBCs also have reservations). By "full of SC/ST" you are insinuating that the place is full of people who are there because of reservation (ie affirmative action) who don't really deserve to be there. But the presence of brahmins would imply that some people are actually getting in because of merit because the brahmins don't have any reservation whatsoever anywhere. So again, the system, albeit flawed, seems to be working. If these places were somehow oscillating between power hungry brahmins trying to keep everybody else down and undeserving SC/STs I doubt that they would be a cohesive group doing good work which they seem to be. Maybe you are just missing people of your background/religion/caste/language/area? I presume you are neither a Brahmin nor a SC/ST? You also mentioned in your follow up post that these institution are in the south and casteism is always a problem there as if in comparison to the rest of the country. Casteism is a problem all over India and the following is not to justify it in any sense. But if anything I would say the south is probably better off than the rest of the country. The population of forward castes is below average overall so the lower castes have a much bigger voice democratically. This is also why TN had till very recently a 69% reservation and anti-reservation riots are a bigger deal in the North (remember the Mandal protests?) than in the south. Communal polarization too is in general higher in the North. Bangalore is usually considered a very cosmopolitan/diverse city and having lived there (and not being a native) I agree. From a comparison of the different regions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_rankings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_rankings ) the south overall seems to be doing better than the rest of India. The southern states are doing above average (and in many cases close to the top) economically, in literacy, infrastructure etc. The three top "technological centres" of India that one hears about mostly - Bangalore, Chennai and Hyderdabad - are also in the south. This inspite of the fact that India has mostly has Prime Ministers from the North (except for two - one of whom - P. V Narasimha Rao - is considered instrumental for our economic liberalization along with our current PM who was then the finance minister). So seems like these states have managed to have better governance. None of these are direct indications of casteism rates and I'm not trying to say that things are just fine in the south and there is no casteism. In general, it seems to me that economic growth/quality of life/good governance etc are indicators of reduced polarization. I don't have numbers to back that up, just an impression. My general impression is that while casteism definitely exists in the south, things are probably better there.

plinkplonk 18y ago

"still almost 100% techies in India never prefer or think about joining ISRO/DRDO which are world-class research organizations." I've consulted for both the DRDO and the ISRO on some very technical projects. You are partially right. Manpower is a problem in both organizations, with the best people going to the United States. That said "world-class research organizations" is a bit of a stretch. There are specific departments which do world class research, but by and large ISRO and DRDO are far from that ideal. Plenty of "scientists" pushing paper and just wasting time in the office and waiting for 5 o clock in the evening so they can go home. Being part of the Indian government, the wastage of resources is appalling (to someone who's worked in the private sector / run his own business)