4 ms·

There is a plethora of javascript frameworks: React, Vue, Svelte, Remix, etc. If I know nothing about front-end development, and would like to learn one that is

There is a plethora of javascript frameworks: React, Vue, Svelte, Remix, etc. If I know nothing about front-end development, and would like to learn one that is: - Intuitive - Suitable for small projects as well as large projects. - That is here to stay, i.e. either adopted by many companies, or its adoption curve is going up. Which one should I pick? Would Svelte be a good choice?

JonathanBeuys 4y ago
Why do you want a framework and not just plain HTML, CSS and Javascript? I have been doing frontend dev for over a decade and I never needed a framework. When I want to template data client side, I use Handlebars.
- veidelis 4y ago
  You've never ran into DOM performance issues? You use a lot of createDocumentFragment? Please share more.
have_faith 4y ago
> Suitable for small projects as well as large projects > That is here to stay, i.e. either adopted by many companies, or its adoption curve is going up. Arguably React for ecosystem and provability at every scale. > Intuitive Likely Svelte. React is mostly fine but hooks come with their footguns for newcomers.
swyx 4y ago
remix isnt like those others in that you’d also need React to do UI at this point React Vue and Svelte are all decent production choices, as for what is intuitive that really depends what YOU like, different strokes different folks svelte is probably the most fully integrated toolkit (animations, state mgmt, server side rendering, serverless api routes, etc) and ships the least javascript at this point tho if u want the quick sales pitch
- slimebot80 4y ago
  remix allows you to deliver zero JS :)
apozem 4y ago
Probably React. - It works in small and large applications - Used in majority of new frontend apps - Reasonably intuitive, especially if you stick to functional components and aren't messing around with low-level renders That said, I enjoyed building a web app with Svelte. It's extremely simple and powerful. Its only disadvantage is it is new and has a fraction of the market share.
culi 4y ago
It's impossible to say this early. Still a very community-driven project. Rust was in a similar position at one point but it wasn't really until Mozilla took the helm that people felt confident enough to say "it's hear to stay". At this point it's been at least used by NYTimes, Facebook, Apple, Spotify, etc but I don't think any of these companies have a lot betting on it yet. It certainly has a huge following in the dataviz community and, for historical reasons, amongst journalists. Additionally it's regularly tops the State of JS surveys as the most loved framework. But none of that is really concrete imo If you're learning a new framework and you're concerned about stability React is still definitely the way to go. I think both React and Svelte are good at depending on generalizeable front-end skills that can carry over to other frameworks though so if your career doesn't depend on it, I don't think learning Svelte is a waste of time at all
pastor_bob 4y ago
I can't remember a time I've seen a posting advertising use of Svelte on a team FWIW. The headwinds against React are strong.
culi 4y ago
If it's for your career: React + (Next or Remix). Maybe Angular or Vue if the specific company you want uses it If it's for yourself: Svelte. Amazing community, very likely to be here in 5 years, but I don't think it's been proven to work at large scales yet. If you want to twist everything upside down and see the full potential of what front-end dev work could be: Qwik or Elm (imho)
- WXLCKNO 4y ago
  What would be an example of large scale for a front-end app or site?
  - culi 4y ago
    complex dashboards like CircleCI or client portals like maybe your bank or health insurance portal many pages and lots of functionality with lots of data floating around like Reddit, Twitter literally everything/anything like Facebook, GitHub, etc For simple apps, I'd go with a PWA if possible. For single, mostly informational, pages you usually just need a static site. For a company blog, some of these tools could be used to make the frontend for a CMS, but you can also just get away with Wordpress, Squarespace, etc most of the time unless they want some really custom functionality. Then there's also micro-frontends and Astro and other related tools if you're trying to do a lot of different things and wanna mix and match different solutions to different problems
    - sesm 4y ago
      BTW, is CircleCI still using ClojureScript + React or they've changed their stack?
    - kevinak 4y ago
      Maybe https://beta.music.apple.com/ https://beta.music.apple.com/ qualifies? =)
      - hit8run 4y ago
        What is apple doing there? They mix ember with svelte? o_O
preommr 4y ago
I would strongly recommend Vue3 in the composition style with <script setup>. It's really close to svelte's style, of simplicity and principle of least astonishment. It also uses very explicit wrappers for reactive objects so that there's isn't as much magic happening. For me, vue's reactivity is order of magnitude simpler than things like svelte. Vue also has a pretty well established community and a pretty solid foundation.
dcre 4y ago
Svelte would be a good choice. It's important to note that there has been a ton of convergence in architecture, so for example, even though Remix uses React, the app architecture it encourages is quite similar to that of SvelteKit. So if you learn one, you would likely find the other familiar and easy to pick up.
qudat 4y ago
Just learn react, you won’t regret it. I wouldn’t do anything else before you understand it well. Don’t worry about anything on the server. Just use: typescript, vite, and react.
kursus 4y ago
I've used many frameworks and in my opinion Svelte+Sveltekit has the very best simplcity over power ratio. If you don't mind job offers being quite scarce for this stack right now that's about the best choice. You can do the Svelte tutorial for a sneak peek of this.

JonathanBeuys 4y ago

Why do you want a framework and not just plain HTML, CSS and Javascript? I have been doing frontend dev for over a decade and I never needed a framework. When I want to template data client side, I use Handlebars.

veidelis 4y ago
You've never ran into DOM performance issues? You use a lot of createDocumentFragment? Please share more.

have_faith 4y ago

> Suitable for small projects as well as large projects > That is here to stay, i.e. either adopted by many companies, or its adoption curve is going up. Arguably React for ecosystem and provability at every scale. > Intuitive Likely Svelte. React is mostly fine but hooks come with their footguns for newcomers.

swyx 4y ago

remix isnt like those others in that you’d also need React to do UI at this point React Vue and Svelte are all decent production choices, as for what is intuitive that really depends what YOU like, different strokes different folks svelte is probably the most fully integrated toolkit (animations, state mgmt, server side rendering, serverless api routes, etc) and ships the least javascript at this point tho if u want the quick sales pitch

slimebot80 4y ago
remix allows you to deliver zero JS :)

apozem 4y ago

Probably React. - It works in small and large applications - Used in majority of new frontend apps - Reasonably intuitive, especially if you stick to functional components and aren't messing around with low-level renders That said, I enjoyed building a web app with Svelte. It's extremely simple and powerful. Its only disadvantage is it is new and has a fraction of the market share.

culi 4y ago

It's impossible to say this early. Still a very community-driven project. Rust was in a similar position at one point but it wasn't really until Mozilla took the helm that people felt confident enough to say "it's hear to stay". At this point it's been at least used by NYTimes, Facebook, Apple, Spotify, etc but I don't think any of these companies have a lot betting on it yet. It certainly has a huge following in the dataviz community and, for historical reasons, amongst journalists. Additionally it's regularly tops the State of JS surveys as the most loved framework. But none of that is really concrete imo If you're learning a new framework and you're concerned about stability React is still definitely the way to go. I think both React and Svelte are good at depending on generalizeable front-end skills that can carry over to other frameworks though so if your career doesn't depend on it, I don't think learning Svelte is a waste of time at all

pastor_bob 4y ago

I can't remember a time I've seen a posting advertising use of Svelte on a team FWIW. The headwinds against React are strong.

culi 4y ago

If it's for your career: React + (Next or Remix). Maybe Angular or Vue if the specific company you want uses it If it's for yourself: Svelte. Amazing community, very likely to be here in 5 years, but I don't think it's been proven to work at large scales yet. If you want to twist everything upside down and see the full potential of what front-end dev work could be: Qwik or Elm (imho)

WXLCKNO 4y ago
What would be an example of large scale for a front-end app or site?
- culi 4y ago
  complex dashboards like CircleCI or client portals like maybe your bank or health insurance portal many pages and lots of functionality with lots of data floating around like Reddit, Twitter literally everything/anything like Facebook, GitHub, etc For simple apps, I'd go with a PWA if possible. For single, mostly informational, pages you usually just need a static site. For a company blog, some of these tools could be used to make the frontend for a CMS, but you can also just get away with Wordpress, Squarespace, etc most of the time unless they want some really custom functionality. Then there's also micro-frontends and Astro and other related tools if you're trying to do a lot of different things and wanna mix and match different solutions to different problems
  - sesm 4y ago
    BTW, is CircleCI still using ClojureScript + React or they've changed their stack?
  - kevinak 4y ago
    Maybe https://beta.music.apple.com/ https://beta.music.apple.com/ qualifies? =)
    - hit8run 4y ago
      What is apple doing there? They mix ember with svelte? o_O

preommr 4y ago

I would strongly recommend Vue3 in the composition style with <script setup>. It's really close to svelte's style, of simplicity and principle of least astonishment. It also uses very explicit wrappers for reactive objects so that there's isn't as much magic happening. For me, vue's reactivity is order of magnitude simpler than things like svelte. Vue also has a pretty well established community and a pretty solid foundation.

dcre 4y ago

Svelte would be a good choice. It's important to note that there has been a ton of convergence in architecture, so for example, even though Remix uses React, the app architecture it encourages is quite similar to that of SvelteKit. So if you learn one, you would likely find the other familiar and easy to pick up.

qudat 4y ago

Just learn react, you won’t regret it. I wouldn’t do anything else before you understand it well. Don’t worry about anything on the server. Just use: typescript, vite, and react.

kursus 4y ago

I've used many frameworks and in my opinion Svelte+Sveltekit has the very best simplcity over power ratio. If you don't mind job offers being quite scarce for this stack right now that's about the best choice. You can do the Svelte tutorial for a sneak peek of this.