5 ms·

40 MPH is absolutely too slow for a highway, dangerous even. Is this for surface roads?

gnicholas 4y ago
> limited-access divided highways with no stoplights, roundabouts, or other traffic control systems Yeah I don't understand where exactly this would be usable, at least around where I live. If it's a divided highway, it would have to have stoplights. Are there places where divided highways have stop signs?
- kingnothing 4y ago
  It's intended for use on interstates and highways during stop and go traffic jams.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    So it's basically adaptive cruise control with lane keeping? I guess they don't have to worry about turns that are too sharp (which an be troubling for lane-keep systems) because they're limiting it to freeways that are meant to be driven at 70 MPH, but only when the speed of traffic is half that.
    - Linosaurus 4y ago
      They are also trying to convince regulators that they, not you, are legally responsible for any incidents. As long as you are ready to take over with a ten second warning.
- gen220 4y ago
  My guess is that it's intended to be used in the entire State of Connecticut, between the hours of 8AM and 10AM and 4PM and 6PM. i.e. situations where the highway is doing its best impression of a Dunkin' Drive-Thru. Signed, slightly-jaded person who drives the Boston<>NYC track enough to be slightly-jaded. --- Or, Wareham -> Barnstable on Cape Cod, on any weekend morning for 6 months out of the year. Or 101 in the CA Bay Area during rush hour. Basically, any time+place where the the thought of driving elicits an audible moan from the people then and there.
- numpad0 4y ago
  Limited-access divided highway in this context means freeways and toll roads with walls to roadsides. It is generally considered acceptable to operate dangerous robot machines in a fenced off areas with enough precautions, and that isn't much different in philosophy to a self driving car on such a highway.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  A limited-access divided highway does not have stoplights or stop signs, or any intersections at all. Cars enter and exit the roadway exclusively via on- or off-ramps.
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  > Yeah I don't understand where exactly this would be usable, at least around where I live. German autobahn.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    < 37 MPH?
    - dual_dingo 4y ago
      Stop and go is an all too common thing on the Autobahn, often during rush hour in areas near large cities.
      - kwhitefoot 4y ago
        If you are thinking of places like Hamburg then the terms and conditions forbid it because the motorways in the Hamburg area are all construction zones and have been for at least the last five years that I have driven through them.
- toast0 4y ago
  A stop sign is a traffic control system, FWIW. They're saying a freeway, more or less, although the low top speed means really a freeway during congestion.
- vel0city 4y ago
  I've been on many rural roads with divided county highways with stop signs. And as others have mentioned it's still a traffic control device.
Karppu 4y ago
From my understanding it's initially meant for use e.g. in slow moving traffic jams on highways. They're working towards getting it approved for up to 130kmh. There's some very general info here: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-mercedes-drivepilot-causes-a-crash/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...
- judge2020 4y ago
  I don't see how 'approval' is required for _anything_. Not for lane-keeping at high speeds, and not for Mercedes to take liability for accidents while their technology is active at high speeds.
  - dual_dingo 4y ago
    Luckily, the law disagrees in most countries and you need to get a type approval before you can sell a new car type or new assistive technologies. I would not want to live in world where this is not the case.
- bscphil 4y ago
  > From my understanding it's initially meant for use e.g. in slow moving traffic jams on highways. I'm guessing the feasibility of this is very city-dependent. in LA, the usual traffic pattern is "drive 60-70 mph for 20 seconds, slow down to 5 mph for 60 seconds, repeat". (Granted that that's because of poor drivers, it would be better to have a consistent speed of 30 mph, but there's nothing Mercedes can do about that either way.)
fnordpiglet 4y ago
So it’s adaptive cruise control? That’s an absurdly low bar.
- ender341341 4y ago
  If they're claiming legal responsibility for it causing any crashes I'd say they're setting a pretty high bar as far as confidence goes.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
trgn 4y ago
Just to piggy back on the 40mph callout, but I would like to see self driving cars never really drive more than 5mph under the speed limit. It would have a great calming effect on traffic. If they combine that with very conservative acceleration, it would be even better, much less of that rushing and accordion effect that's causing so many crashes. Instead, Tesla fsd, at least from the youtube videos, looks like it's driving like a BMW-driver. Way way way too aggressive. The biggest contributors to car crashes is speed and not enough distance from car in front. If self-driving cars would exaggerate the basic premises of safe driving, low speed, low acceleration, long distance, ... it would be really good for traffic overall imho.
- vel0city 4y ago
  Driving significantly slower than the pace of traffic is dangerous. If the average pace of traffic is 5mph over but your car won't go faster than 5 under, you're now going 10mph less than everyone around you. Speed differentials kill.
  - trgn 4y ago
    > Speed differentials kill. That's the cope people use for habitual speeding. 10mh is not significant differential. 30 vs 60 on a highway, sure, 55 vs 65, not at all. You should actually try it once. Go five under the speed limit and keep generous distance with the car in front of you. You'll barely notice it. Traffic will be ahead of you, you won't pass anybody. The biggest thing to get over is the ego-thing. As you are doing this, then also pay attention to your capacity to act on any emergency stop you may have to make (dog sprinting across, car slamming their breaks, ...) and how much much more time and capacity you will have to respond. The other thing that peoples mind immediately go to multi-lane highways. Never the other 70-80% of driving, in town, single lanes, where going slower is always manifestly better.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      I've seen it many times before. I got people bunching up behind me, riding my bumper, cutting me off, swerving around me, causing near misses in other lanes as they cut other people off trying to pass. It causes backups near ramps to get on and off highways, backups which often result in rear end collisions, partially because...ding ding ding speed differentials. Also, acting in capacity to react in an emergency is more about following distance than speed. And yeah, as speed increases a driver needs to increase their follow distance. Something that I agree loads of people fail at doing and then complain about their ADAS systems always slamming on the brakes suddenly. > where going slower is always manifestly better. Just tell that to all the cyclists going < 20mph in 40-50MPH roads. They're way safer going that speed than those fools driving their cars near the speed limit. It's often not safe for them, partially because...speed differentials. To solve this, we shouldn't just restrict cars to only go cycling speeds, we should build infrastructure so similar speed traffic is grouped together and separate, reducing...speed differentials. If I started driving my car 5mph in a 40mph road, I'd probably cause more accidents than if I just went along with traffic at 43mph. Speed differentials kill.

> limited-access divided highways with no stoplights, roundabouts, or other traffic control systems Yeah I don't understand where exactly this would be usable, at least around where I live. If it's a divided highway, it would have to have stoplights. Are there places where divided highways have stop signs?

kingnothing 4y ago
It's intended for use on interstates and highways during stop and go traffic jams.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  So it's basically adaptive cruise control with lane keeping? I guess they don't have to worry about turns that are too sharp (which an be troubling for lane-keep systems) because they're limiting it to freeways that are meant to be driven at 70 MPH, but only when the speed of traffic is half that.
  - Linosaurus 4y ago
    They are also trying to convince regulators that they, not you, are legally responsible for any incidents. As long as you are ready to take over with a ten second warning.
gen220 4y ago
My guess is that it's intended to be used in the entire State of Connecticut, between the hours of 8AM and 10AM and 4PM and 6PM. i.e. situations where the highway is doing its best impression of a Dunkin' Drive-Thru. Signed, slightly-jaded person who drives the Boston<>NYC track enough to be slightly-jaded. --- Or, Wareham -> Barnstable on Cape Cod, on any weekend morning for 6 months out of the year. Or 101 in the CA Bay Area during rush hour. Basically, any time+place where the the thought of driving elicits an audible moan from the people then and there.
numpad0 4y ago
Limited-access divided highway in this context means freeways and toll roads with walls to roadsides. It is generally considered acceptable to operate dangerous robot machines in a fenced off areas with enough precautions, and that isn't much different in philosophy to a self driving car on such a highway.
snowwrestler 4y ago
A limited-access divided highway does not have stoplights or stop signs, or any intersections at all. Cars enter and exit the roadway exclusively via on- or off-ramps.
someweirdperson 4y ago
> Yeah I don't understand where exactly this would be usable, at least around where I live. German autobahn.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  < 37 MPH?
  - dual_dingo 4y ago
    Stop and go is an all too common thing on the Autobahn, often during rush hour in areas near large cities.
    - kwhitefoot 4y ago
      If you are thinking of places like Hamburg then the terms and conditions forbid it because the motorways in the Hamburg area are all construction zones and have been for at least the last five years that I have driven through them.
toast0 4y ago
A stop sign is a traffic control system, FWIW. They're saying a freeway, more or less, although the low top speed means really a freeway during congestion.
vel0city 4y ago
I've been on many rural roads with divided county highways with stop signs. And as others have mentioned it's still a traffic control device.

Karppu 4y ago

From my understanding it's initially meant for use e.g. in slow moving traffic jams on highways. They're working towards getting it approved for up to 130kmh. There's some very general info here: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-mercedes-drivepilot-causes-a-crash/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...

judge2020 4y ago
I don't see how 'approval' is required for _anything_. Not for lane-keeping at high speeds, and not for Mercedes to take liability for accidents while their technology is active at high speeds.
- dual_dingo 4y ago
  Luckily, the law disagrees in most countries and you need to get a type approval before you can sell a new car type or new assistive technologies. I would not want to live in world where this is not the case.
bscphil 4y ago
> From my understanding it's initially meant for use e.g. in slow moving traffic jams on highways. I'm guessing the feasibility of this is very city-dependent. in LA, the usual traffic pattern is "drive 60-70 mph for 20 seconds, slow down to 5 mph for 60 seconds, repeat". (Granted that that's because of poor drivers, it would be better to have a consistent speed of 30 mph, but there's nothing Mercedes can do about that either way.)

fnordpiglet 4y ago

So it’s adaptive cruise control? That’s an absurdly low bar.

ender341341 4y ago
If they're claiming legal responsibility for it causing any crashes I'd say they're setting a pretty high bar as far as confidence goes.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

trgn 4y ago

Just to piggy back on the 40mph callout, but I would like to see self driving cars never really drive more than 5mph under the speed limit. It would have a great calming effect on traffic. If they combine that with very conservative acceleration, it would be even better, much less of that rushing and accordion effect that's causing so many crashes. Instead, Tesla fsd, at least from the youtube videos, looks like it's driving like a BMW-driver. Way way way too aggressive. The biggest contributors to car crashes is speed and not enough distance from car in front. If self-driving cars would exaggerate the basic premises of safe driving, low speed, low acceleration, long distance, ... it would be really good for traffic overall imho.

vel0city 4y ago
Driving significantly slower than the pace of traffic is dangerous. If the average pace of traffic is 5mph over but your car won't go faster than 5 under, you're now going 10mph less than everyone around you. Speed differentials kill.
- trgn 4y ago
  > Speed differentials kill. That's the cope people use for habitual speeding. 10mh is not significant differential. 30 vs 60 on a highway, sure, 55 vs 65, not at all. You should actually try it once. Go five under the speed limit and keep generous distance with the car in front of you. You'll barely notice it. Traffic will be ahead of you, you won't pass anybody. The biggest thing to get over is the ego-thing. As you are doing this, then also pay attention to your capacity to act on any emergency stop you may have to make (dog sprinting across, car slamming their breaks, ...) and how much much more time and capacity you will have to respond. The other thing that peoples mind immediately go to multi-lane highways. Never the other 70-80% of driving, in town, single lanes, where going slower is always manifestly better.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I've seen it many times before. I got people bunching up behind me, riding my bumper, cutting me off, swerving around me, causing near misses in other lanes as they cut other people off trying to pass. It causes backups near ramps to get on and off highways, backups which often result in rear end collisions, partially because...ding ding ding speed differentials. Also, acting in capacity to react in an emergency is more about following distance than speed. And yeah, as speed increases a driver needs to increase their follow distance. Something that I agree loads of people fail at doing and then complain about their ADAS systems always slamming on the brakes suddenly. > where going slower is always manifestly better. Just tell that to all the cyclists going < 20mph in 40-50MPH roads. They're way safer going that speed than those fools driving their cars near the speed limit. It's often not safe for them, partially because...speed differentials. To solve this, we shouldn't just restrict cars to only go cycling speeds, we should build infrastructure so similar speed traffic is grouped together and separate, reducing...speed differentials. If I started driving my car 5mph in a 40mph road, I'd probably cause more accidents than if I just went along with traffic at 43mph. Speed differentials kill.