5 ms·

Here is the full list of restrictions for the Drive Pilot legal liabities to take effect: Roads need to be premapped ahead of time with LiDAR Roads need to

by gzer0 4y ago

Here is the full list of restrictions for the Drive Pilot legal liabities to take effect: Roads need to be premapped ahead of time with LiDAR Roads need to be pre-approved Car cannot go above 37 MPH limited-access divided highways with no stoplights no roundabouts no traffic control systems whatsoever no construction zones only operate during daytime Reasonably clear weather Without overhead obstructions It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. This would simply be too dangerous to even allow. Let me know of any other system that is even remotely close to being able to do the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFAlwAawSvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFAlwAawSvU

gnicholas 4y ago
So it works on freeways when there's congestion, and the speed of traffic is < 37 MPH? Sounds like adaptive cruise control with lane keep (and insurance coverage, which isn't nothing).
- macspoofing 4y ago
  >Sounds like adaptive cruise control with lane keep (and insurance coverage, which isn't nothing). Without the restriction that hands are on-wheel and driver is paying attention to the road. That's a BIG difference.
lolinder 4y ago
People have mentioned this in other sub-threads, but it's explicitly intended for stop-and-go traffic jams: > Mercedez-Benz has announced approval of their “Drive Pilot” system, in Germany, which does fully autonomous operation in highway traffic jam situations. > ... > The Mercedes car provides the traffic jam assist function — only on German motorways to start — below 60 km/h. While people debate whether they want to drive their car or not, nobody likes driving in a traffic jam, and everybody hates the time wasted in them. As a luxury feature, this will let drivers make more productive use of that time. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2021/12/13/mercedes-gets-approval-for-traffic-jam-pilot-where-is-tesla/?sh=ae96a6b5fc8e https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2021/12/13/merced...
- slg 4y ago
  But stop and go traffic jams in perfect conditions can already be handled properly by numerous companies' adaptive cruise control and lane keeping systems. I'm not sure why I should be impressed with Mercedes' tech here. The impressive aspect is that they are standing behind the tech by taking on liability, but that could easily just be considered a marketing expense rather than actual confidence in the technology. We have all heard the auto manufacturer anecdote from Fight Club. The math these companies do is based off money and not lives saved.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Based on all the information I've seen, adaptive cruise control with lane keeping is all that Tesla is reliable at as well. The main difference between them and Mercedes is that Tesla is willing to put out tech that is known to be unreliable and let their customers take the fall for it.
  - retSava 4y ago
    Perhaps this is just a rebrand of that already common tech? Kind of how some manufacturers claim "we have AI!" just based on something simple like adapting to a moving average.
  - ummonk 4y ago
    The difference is that they're explicitly allowing the driver to stop paying attention to driving, which reduces fatigue, wasted time etc. It's actual level 3 self-driving tech rather than mere driver assistance tech. Of course, other driver assistance systems might be close to on par with it, but a system that successfully navigates stop and go traffic 99% of the time is very different from a system that successfully navigates stop and go traffic 100% of the time, in terms of driver attention required.
    - slg 4y ago
      I'm not sure level 3 is any safer than level 2. Level 3 still requires a driver to intervene if the car requests it. But going from not paying attention to driving isn't something that can happen instantly. Imagine you are playing some game on your phone and alarms start going off in the car. You need to be able to process what those alarms are saying, assess the situation, and take control of the car. How quickly can people do that? Likely not fast enough to avoid any urgent issues. A driver in a level 2 system should already be paying attention so they should be able to respond quicker. And yes, I understand that drivers can get lazy with a level 2 system. But if the selling point of Mercedes is taking over liability from the driver, I am mostly concerned how the system would benefit me as a driver and I regularly use my car's level 2 features while paying attention.
tablespoon 4y ago
> It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. This would simply be too dangerous to even allow. So does the Texas Highway Patrol ticket everyone in a traffic jam? They almost certainly don't, which should be a big clue that it's not so simple. This appears to be the actual law in Texas: https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._transp._code_section_545.363 https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._transp._code_section_... > (a) An operator may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. > ... > (c) If appropriate signs are erected giving notice of a minimum speed limit adopted under this section, an operator may not drive a vehicle more slowly than that limit except as necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. It's not safely operating a vehicle to go 40mph in 10mph traffic.
mcguire 4y ago
"It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. This would simply be too dangerous to even allow." You don't live in Austin or Houston, do you? :-)
vel0city 4y ago
> It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. I've been at a dead stop on many highways in Texas, along with hundreds of other cars around me. I see such things happening pretty often outside my office window. Honestly, times when I'm going <37MPH on a controlled access highway is some of the most annoying driving that I'd like to have completely automated. That usually means I'm in stop and go traffic, some of the most grating time to drive. Both of my cars are mostly there, keeping safe distances and coming to a stop with cruise control, but definitely not completely automated yet.
snotrockets 4y ago
Texas has done a lot to increase the dangers caused by their roads, and don't seem like they plan to reroute. Just look at the current plans for the I-35, ffs.

by gzer0 4y ago

gnicholas 4y ago

So it works on freeways when there's congestion, and the speed of traffic is < 37 MPH? Sounds like adaptive cruise control with lane keep (and insurance coverage, which isn't nothing).

macspoofing 4y ago
>Sounds like adaptive cruise control with lane keep (and insurance coverage, which isn't nothing). Without the restriction that hands are on-wheel and driver is paying attention to the road. That's a BIG difference.

lolinder 4y ago

People have mentioned this in other sub-threads, but it's explicitly intended for stop-and-go traffic jams: > Mercedez-Benz has announced approval of their “Drive Pilot” system, in Germany, which does fully autonomous operation in highway traffic jam situations. > ... > The Mercedes car provides the traffic jam assist function — only on German motorways to start — below 60 km/h. While people debate whether they want to drive their car or not, nobody likes driving in a traffic jam, and everybody hates the time wasted in them. As a luxury feature, this will let drivers make more productive use of that time. https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2021/12/13/mercedes-gets-approval-for-traffic-jam-pilot-where-is-tesla/?sh=ae96a6b5fc8e https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2021/12/13/merced...

slg 4y ago
But stop and go traffic jams in perfect conditions can already be handled properly by numerous companies' adaptive cruise control and lane keeping systems. I'm not sure why I should be impressed with Mercedes' tech here. The impressive aspect is that they are standing behind the tech by taking on liability, but that could easily just be considered a marketing expense rather than actual confidence in the technology. We have all heard the auto manufacturer anecdote from Fight Club. The math these companies do is based off money and not lives saved.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Based on all the information I've seen, adaptive cruise control with lane keeping is all that Tesla is reliable at as well. The main difference between them and Mercedes is that Tesla is willing to put out tech that is known to be unreliable and let their customers take the fall for it.
- retSava 4y ago
  Perhaps this is just a rebrand of that already common tech? Kind of how some manufacturers claim "we have AI!" just based on something simple like adapting to a moving average.
- ummonk 4y ago
  The difference is that they're explicitly allowing the driver to stop paying attention to driving, which reduces fatigue, wasted time etc. It's actual level 3 self-driving tech rather than mere driver assistance tech. Of course, other driver assistance systems might be close to on par with it, but a system that successfully navigates stop and go traffic 99% of the time is very different from a system that successfully navigates stop and go traffic 100% of the time, in terms of driver attention required.
  - slg 4y ago
    I'm not sure level 3 is any safer than level 2. Level 3 still requires a driver to intervene if the car requests it. But going from not paying attention to driving isn't something that can happen instantly. Imagine you are playing some game on your phone and alarms start going off in the car. You need to be able to process what those alarms are saying, assess the situation, and take control of the car. How quickly can people do that? Likely not fast enough to avoid any urgent issues. A driver in a level 2 system should already be paying attention so they should be able to respond quicker. And yes, I understand that drivers can get lazy with a level 2 system. But if the selling point of Mercedes is taking over liability from the driver, I am mostly concerned how the system would benefit me as a driver and I regularly use my car's level 2 features while paying attention.

tablespoon 4y ago

> It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. This would simply be too dangerous to even allow. So does the Texas Highway Patrol ticket everyone in a traffic jam? They almost certainly don't, which should be a big clue that it's not so simple. This appears to be the actual law in Texas: https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._transp._code_section_545.363 https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._transp._code_section_... > (a) An operator may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. > ... > (c) If appropriate signs are erected giving notice of a minimum speed limit adopted under this section, an operator may not drive a vehicle more slowly than that limit except as necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law. It's not safely operating a vehicle to go 40mph in 10mph traffic.

mcguire 4y ago

"It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. This would simply be too dangerous to even allow." You don't live in Austin or Houston, do you? :-)

vel0city 4y ago

> It is actually illegal to be going that slow on a highway, in Texas at least. I've been at a dead stop on many highways in Texas, along with hundreds of other cars around me. I see such things happening pretty often outside my office window. Honestly, times when I'm going <37MPH on a controlled access highway is some of the most annoying driving that I'd like to have completely automated. That usually means I'm in stop and go traffic, some of the most grating time to drive. Both of my cars are mostly there, keeping safe distances and coming to a stop with cruise control, but definitely not completely automated yet.

snotrockets 4y ago

Texas has done a lot to increase the dangers caused by their roads, and don't seem like they plan to reroute. Just look at the current plans for the I-35, ffs.