5 ms·

Finally, people are starting to realize that the "stock market" is a huge scam

by woah 4y ago

devmor 4y ago
I don't think its fair to call the stock market a scam. I do think it's fair to say that a large part of how the stock market is used is in scams. Ideally, the stock market should be an open, visible and free agency for the population to invest in and gain returns from supporting publicly traded businesses. I just think it's far too unregulated (or perhaps, improperly regulated is the right term) to operate in that way.
- calibas 4y ago
  > Ideally, the stock market should be an open, visible and free agency for the population to invest in and gain returns from supporting publicly traded businesses. Now that trading is moving to "dark pools", things seem to be moving in the opposite direction.
  - snapcaster 4y ago
    You don't seem to understand what a "dark pool" is and I can't help but get the feeling your financial world model has been poisoned by supporters of very specific stocks. Please step out of whatever place you're learning this stuff from and expose yourself to alternative explanations for the things you're seeing
    - calibas 4y ago
      Please, give me your "alternative explanation" about how dark pools make stock trading more open and visible.
      - snapcaster 4y ago
        Sure, but first off I never claimed they "make stock trading more open and visible" that was you putting words in my mouth. That being said, it does make it much more accessible to retail investors. Trading stocks without fees and more or less instantly is impossible without dark pools. We could do away with dark pools entirely, but it would mean going back to paying $9.99 for trades or whatever but somehow I expect the same people crying about dark pools wouldn't like that either. Another aspect of dark pool hate is the idea that market impact can be reduced by selling through them as opposed to on market. If you're a speculator, this can be good or bad depending on the side of the trade you're on so probably evens out to a wash. If you're a long term investor, this is also a wash since you shouldn't be concerned about short term volatility (or lack thereof) of your investment. What exactly do you take issue with when it comes to dark pools? what problems do you think they're causing that outweigh the very real benefits to market participants I listed?
        calibas 4y ago
        > Sure, but first off I never claimed they "make stock trading more open and visible" that was you putting words in my mouth. My whole comment was that they make stock trading the opposite of "open and visible", then you come along and tell me that I don't understand what a dark pool is... That's exactly what a dark pool does, you just see that as a good thing because it benefits investors. I'm more concerned about their effect on the other 99% of the human population.
        snapcaster 4y ago
        Why would non-investors care whether trades in something they don't participate happen in a "lit" exchange or a "dark pool"? I don't play basketball, so not concerned at all about changes to basketball rules. Now i'm very confused on your point
        calibas 4y ago
        It's simple, everybody participates in the global economy (unlike basketball), so shifts in how markets work have far-reaching effects. I'm not convinced that switching to less transparent systems is in the best interest of your average person.
mrmuagi 4y ago
There is nuance here you are passing by. This is a classic influence pump and dump, these sort of scams make their rounds in various shitcoins all too often. It is a good thing you are hearing about them, because they are being caught. Don't fall for the survival bias fallacy. However, a well diversified index fund is not the same thing. If it seems the same, keep your money in a savings account and pay tithe to hopefully keep the inflation monster at bay.
anon291 4y ago
The SEC has been around for many decades and prosecuting cases like this for just as long. If you work in finance in any form, there are myriad rules you have to follow to not be prosecuted.
snapcaster 4y ago
This gave me the opposite feeling. Watching all these criminals run pump and dumps openly for the last two years was making me start to feel like the "stock market is a scam". Seeing these people be prosecuted actually _increases_ my faith in the market
timbit42 4y ago
The stock market was designed to be profitable for shareholders through dividends, not stock price increases. Today, everyone focuses on stock prices instead of dividends.

Finally, people are starting to realize that the "stock market" is a huge scam

by woah 4y ago

Finally, people are starting to realize that the "stock market" is a huge scam

I don't think its fair to call the stock market a scam. I do think it's fair to say that a large part of how the stock market is used is in scams. Ideally, the stock market should be an open, visible and free agency for the population to invest in and gain returns from supporting publicly traded businesses. I just think it's far too unregulated (or perhaps, improperly regulated is the right term) to operate in that way.

calibas 4y ago
> Ideally, the stock market should be an open, visible and free agency for the population to invest in and gain returns from supporting publicly traded businesses. Now that trading is moving to "dark pools", things seem to be moving in the opposite direction.
- snapcaster 4y ago
  You don't seem to understand what a "dark pool" is and I can't help but get the feeling your financial world model has been poisoned by supporters of very specific stocks. Please step out of whatever place you're learning this stuff from and expose yourself to alternative explanations for the things you're seeing
  - calibas 4y ago
    Please, give me your "alternative explanation" about how dark pools make stock trading more open and visible.
    - snapcaster 4y ago
      Sure, but first off I never claimed they "make stock trading more open and visible" that was you putting words in my mouth. That being said, it does make it much more accessible to retail investors. Trading stocks without fees and more or less instantly is impossible without dark pools. We could do away with dark pools entirely, but it would mean going back to paying $9.99 for trades or whatever but somehow I expect the same people crying about dark pools wouldn't like that either. Another aspect of dark pool hate is the idea that market impact can be reduced by selling through them as opposed to on market. If you're a speculator, this can be good or bad depending on the side of the trade you're on so probably evens out to a wash. If you're a long term investor, this is also a wash since you shouldn't be concerned about short term volatility (or lack thereof) of your investment. What exactly do you take issue with when it comes to dark pools? what problems do you think they're causing that outweigh the very real benefits to market participants I listed?
      - calibas 4y ago
        > Sure, but first off I never claimed they "make stock trading more open and visible" that was you putting words in my mouth. My whole comment was that they make stock trading the opposite of "open and visible", then you come along and tell me that I don't understand what a dark pool is... That's exactly what a dark pool does, you just see that as a good thing because it benefits investors. I'm more concerned about their effect on the other 99% of the human population.
        snapcaster 4y ago
        Why would non-investors care whether trades in something they don't participate happen in a "lit" exchange or a "dark pool"? I don't play basketball, so not concerned at all about changes to basketball rules. Now i'm very confused on your point
        calibas 4y ago
        It's simple, everybody participates in the global economy (unlike basketball), so shifts in how markets work have far-reaching effects. I'm not convinced that switching to less transparent systems is in the best interest of your average person.

mrmuagi 4y ago

There is nuance here you are passing by. This is a classic influence pump and dump, these sort of scams make their rounds in various shitcoins all too often. It is a good thing you are hearing about them, because they are being caught. Don't fall for the survival bias fallacy. However, a well diversified index fund is not the same thing. If it seems the same, keep your money in a savings account and pay tithe to hopefully keep the inflation monster at bay.

anon291 4y ago

The SEC has been around for many decades and prosecuting cases like this for just as long. If you work in finance in any form, there are myriad rules you have to follow to not be prosecuted.

snapcaster 4y ago

This gave me the opposite feeling. Watching all these criminals run pump and dumps openly for the last two years was making me start to feel like the "stock market is a scam". Seeing these people be prosecuted actually _increases_ my faith in the market

timbit42 4y ago

The stock market was designed to be profitable for shareholders through dividends, not stock price increases. Today, everyone focuses on stock prices instead of dividends.