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I saw somebody call Musk "Phony Stark", and that seems to me a pithy summary of the cognitive biases going on here. This place is a magnet for would-be world-ch

I saw somebody call Musk "Phony Stark", and that seems to me a pithy summary of the cognitive biases going on here. This place is a magnet for would-be world-changing tech geniuses. Musk's level of technical skill is in dispute, but he's been incredibly good at hyping himself as Thomas Edison 2.0, and has been very effective in using that to attract cheap capital for gee-whiz projects. I get why he got the benefit of the doubt here. But the Twitter acquisition has blown some big holes in the myth. He talked a good game about free speech, but it was clear from his initial bid for Twitter that he didn't really understand the realities of the business or the difficulties of hosting speech at scale. And since he took over, he has stepped onto turf a lot of people here understand quite well: running a business, managing software development, and the dynamics of online forums and social media. And I expect this disillusionment will continue. Somebody described the Twitter acquisition as "fragile narcissist buys criticism factory", so I expect Musk will feel emotionally compelled to engage with Twitter personally, rather than doing the sensible thing and turning it over to somebody competent while turning his attention back to his at-risk car company. So look for more of him pursuing personal grudges and putting far-right political views (e.g. "The woke mind virus is either defeated or nothing else matters") into action with absolutely no regard to his pieties around free speech. In the US right, "free speech" is often code for "the powerful should never experience criticism or accountability". That may seem weird, but it's a specific instance of the more general point: "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." Cross that with "free speech" and you get what Elon is doing: free speech for the right people, arbitrary deranking and account bans for the wrong.

seanw444 4y ago
> fragile narcissist buys criticism factory That's a succinct way to put it. I like that.
starkd 4y ago
He said from the very beginning that he would make mistakes. Anyone one person is going to be biased with decisions these decisions and is not going to make everyone happy all the time. The real test is whether he can establish systems that can patrol the speech, so that no one person is at fault. This takes time.
- cmh89 4y ago
  Elon Musk is an idiot who bought is own bull. This is just a case of the dog catching the car. He's never going to develop 'systems that can patrol the speech' because he's far too vain and think skinned to allow actual open dialogue. Like every other conservative, the only speech he really cares about is his own, and he is completely comfortable banning or delisting speech he personally doesn't like. He's tyrant man child.
  - starkd 4y ago
    "tyrant man child" "far too vain" "thick skinned" "like every other conservative" Ever look in the mirror? That's a lot of hate and presumptions to assume about one person. And Elon is most definitely not a conservative. He has stated he voted democrat his whole life. His support for republicans is only recent and says he is not against voting democrat sometime in the future.
    - seanw444 4y ago
      I'm pretty... confused, for lack of better terms, at the amount of vitriol that (overwhelmingly) liberals have exhibited during this whole ordeal. Dude bought a company. Stay or leave. Why is everyone flailing about so much? People have a weird obsession with Elon now. Personally, I was skeptical of his claims to free speech and still am (especially given how he's handled it thus far). You simply can't have free speech platforms. You need protocols designed to achieve such a thing. Something like Twitter is always doomed to be censored. But my disagreement ends there. I'm enjoying the Twitter files releases. Seeing the cooperation between Twitter and the feds is both unsurprising and unsettling.
      - wpietri 4y ago
        I have a hard time believing this is sincere: > Dude bought a company. Approximately nobody thinks Twitter is just another company. Clearly Musk doesn't think that; he's waxed poetic about how important it is to the future of humanity. Its hundreds of millions of users don't think it's just another company either. It demonstrably played an important role in journalism and public discourse.
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
If the tradeoff is Elon bans all the horrible doxxers and childporn weirdos and permits all the vaxx skeptics, the non-establishment Left, and non-establishment Right. I am completely fine with that.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Think of the children!!!
- baggachipz 4y ago
  He reinstated Donald Trump's account. That's all you need to know about that.
  - IntelMiner 4y ago
    Trump isn't a fascist! He's just "non establishment right" Edit: I should probably point out this is sarcasm used to highlight the absurdity of the original posters "I'm fine with fascists ('non-establishment right') being back on twitter"
    - samtp 4y ago
      Yes because calling to suspend the constitution in order to overturn a democratic election is not fascist behavior at all.
      - philosopher1234 4y ago
        He must have been kidding. Or exaggerating. He wouldn't really do that. Hes just a prankster. Lets elect him again so we can find out for sure.
      - IntelMiner 4y ago
        I should have done the reddit thing and added an "/s" to my comment to denote the intended sarcasm My comment was exaggerated to highlight how absurd the OP's comment of "I'm completely fine with having 'non-establishment right' back" was. Because it boiled away any semblance of reality that these were awful people
fortyseven 4y ago
Anyone giving him the benefit of the doubt has apparently been asleep for the past half decade.
- wpietri 4y ago
  I know what you mean, but I think it's worth being more generous here. Musk is very good at PR, so I think the adage about "all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time" applies here. If all you knew about him came from the general press, up until earlier this year it would have been easy to think positively and uncritically of him.
  - x0x0 4y ago
    Speaking for myself only: Musk actually delivered electric cars that work. You can buy one, it will likely show up, and it will do what it claims to do. Building one of the few successful (ie not out of business) new car companies in the last 50 years is pretty damn impressive. I'd heard of claims of labor disputes and other unsavory stuff at the Tesla factories, but honestly, I don't know of a single car company in the world without a history of and ongoing labor tensions. The self driving was obviously a fantasy and Musk got way over his skis on claims there, but he's far from alone. Watching him drive Twitter into the ground has been a revelation for me.
- d23 4y ago
  Eh, I was mostly neutral to mildly positive for lack of information. I knew he ran a couple of cool-sounding tech companies, but that was about it. I assumed he was at least somewhat competent and stable.
troad 4y ago
> In the US right, "free speech" is often code for "the powerful should never experience criticism or accountability". This is just your partisan blinkers talking. Someone on the right could equally say “social justice” on the US left is often code for “now I take your stuff”. Both statements are partisan, largely inaccurate, and wholly unconstructive. There are many people on the right deeply committed to free speech, like David French. There are many non-partisan institutions committed to free speech, like (formerly) the ACLU and (now) FIRE. There are many left wing people deeply committed to free speech, like those people fighting Florida’s “anti-woke” speech laws. Abolitionism. Civil rights. Gay rights. Liberal triumphs built on free speech, on free criticism, even in the face of overwhelming odds. Don’t cede free speech to petty partisanship. Nothing good will come of it.
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  > David French He's not a congressperson, senator, or governor and has limited influence on the current base of the US right-wing.
  - troad 4y ago
    That’s, respectfully, very ignorant of the US right. Contrary to what Twitter would lead one to believe, Congresspeople like MTG wield absolutely no influence over the politics of the right, whereas the 2019 conflict over the future of Fusionism - the basic compromise underlying the coalition of libertarians and conservatives that comprise the modern US right - is defined by the debates between Sohrab Ahmari and David French. David French is a giant figure on the intellectual right. (I don’t identify as a member of the right, to be clear, but these are just very obvious trends for anyone that actually observes the right, rather than just making assumptions guided by partisan antipathy.)
    - jonny_eh 4y ago
      > David French is a giant figure on the intellectual right Sure, but my contention is that at best the intellectual right doesn't matter, and at its worst it's now an oxymoron.
noncoml 4y ago
Yeah, if anything this whole story helped reveal the two sides of HNers Those who are interested in technology in itself And those who are interested in technology as a means to be one rich and maybe powerful

seanw444 4y ago

> fragile narcissist buys criticism factory That's a succinct way to put it. I like that.

starkd 4y ago

He said from the very beginning that he would make mistakes. Anyone one person is going to be biased with decisions these decisions and is not going to make everyone happy all the time. The real test is whether he can establish systems that can patrol the speech, so that no one person is at fault. This takes time.

cmh89 4y ago
Elon Musk is an idiot who bought is own bull. This is just a case of the dog catching the car. He's never going to develop 'systems that can patrol the speech' because he's far too vain and think skinned to allow actual open dialogue. Like every other conservative, the only speech he really cares about is his own, and he is completely comfortable banning or delisting speech he personally doesn't like. He's tyrant man child.
- starkd 4y ago
  "tyrant man child" "far too vain" "thick skinned" "like every other conservative" Ever look in the mirror? That's a lot of hate and presumptions to assume about one person. And Elon is most definitely not a conservative. He has stated he voted democrat his whole life. His support for republicans is only recent and says he is not against voting democrat sometime in the future.
  - seanw444 4y ago
    I'm pretty... confused, for lack of better terms, at the amount of vitriol that (overwhelmingly) liberals have exhibited during this whole ordeal. Dude bought a company. Stay or leave. Why is everyone flailing about so much? People have a weird obsession with Elon now. Personally, I was skeptical of his claims to free speech and still am (especially given how he's handled it thus far). You simply can't have free speech platforms. You need protocols designed to achieve such a thing. Something like Twitter is always doomed to be censored. But my disagreement ends there. I'm enjoying the Twitter files releases. Seeing the cooperation between Twitter and the feds is both unsurprising and unsettling.
    - wpietri 4y ago
      I have a hard time believing this is sincere: > Dude bought a company. Approximately nobody thinks Twitter is just another company. Clearly Musk doesn't think that; he's waxed poetic about how important it is to the future of humanity. Its hundreds of millions of users don't think it's just another company either. It demonstrably played an important role in journalism and public discourse.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

If the tradeoff is Elon bans all the horrible doxxers and childporn weirdos and permits all the vaxx skeptics, the non-establishment Left, and non-establishment Right. I am completely fine with that.

barbazoo 4y ago
Think of the children!!!
baggachipz 4y ago
He reinstated Donald Trump's account. That's all you need to know about that.
- IntelMiner 4y ago
  Trump isn't a fascist! He's just "non establishment right" Edit: I should probably point out this is sarcasm used to highlight the absurdity of the original posters "I'm fine with fascists ('non-establishment right') being back on twitter"
  - samtp 4y ago
    Yes because calling to suspend the constitution in order to overturn a democratic election is not fascist behavior at all.
    - philosopher1234 4y ago
      He must have been kidding. Or exaggerating. He wouldn't really do that. Hes just a prankster. Lets elect him again so we can find out for sure.
    - IntelMiner 4y ago
      I should have done the reddit thing and added an "/s" to my comment to denote the intended sarcasm My comment was exaggerated to highlight how absurd the OP's comment of "I'm completely fine with having 'non-establishment right' back" was. Because it boiled away any semblance of reality that these were awful people

fortyseven 4y ago

Anyone giving him the benefit of the doubt has apparently been asleep for the past half decade.

wpietri 4y ago
I know what you mean, but I think it's worth being more generous here. Musk is very good at PR, so I think the adage about "all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time" applies here. If all you knew about him came from the general press, up until earlier this year it would have been easy to think positively and uncritically of him.
- x0x0 4y ago
  Speaking for myself only: Musk actually delivered electric cars that work. You can buy one, it will likely show up, and it will do what it claims to do. Building one of the few successful (ie not out of business) new car companies in the last 50 years is pretty damn impressive. I'd heard of claims of labor disputes and other unsavory stuff at the Tesla factories, but honestly, I don't know of a single car company in the world without a history of and ongoing labor tensions. The self driving was obviously a fantasy and Musk got way over his skis on claims there, but he's far from alone. Watching him drive Twitter into the ground has been a revelation for me.
d23 4y ago
Eh, I was mostly neutral to mildly positive for lack of information. I knew he ran a couple of cool-sounding tech companies, but that was about it. I assumed he was at least somewhat competent and stable.

troad 4y ago

> In the US right, "free speech" is often code for "the powerful should never experience criticism or accountability". This is just your partisan blinkers talking. Someone on the right could equally say “social justice” on the US left is often code for “now I take your stuff”. Both statements are partisan, largely inaccurate, and wholly unconstructive. There are many people on the right deeply committed to free speech, like David French. There are many non-partisan institutions committed to free speech, like (formerly) the ACLU and (now) FIRE. There are many left wing people deeply committed to free speech, like those people fighting Florida’s “anti-woke” speech laws. Abolitionism. Civil rights. Gay rights. Liberal triumphs built on free speech, on free criticism, even in the face of overwhelming odds. Don’t cede free speech to petty partisanship. Nothing good will come of it.

jonny_eh 4y ago
> David French He's not a congressperson, senator, or governor and has limited influence on the current base of the US right-wing.
- troad 4y ago
  That’s, respectfully, very ignorant of the US right. Contrary to what Twitter would lead one to believe, Congresspeople like MTG wield absolutely no influence over the politics of the right, whereas the 2019 conflict over the future of Fusionism - the basic compromise underlying the coalition of libertarians and conservatives that comprise the modern US right - is defined by the debates between Sohrab Ahmari and David French. David French is a giant figure on the intellectual right. (I don’t identify as a member of the right, to be clear, but these are just very obvious trends for anyone that actually observes the right, rather than just making assumptions guided by partisan antipathy.)
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    > David French is a giant figure on the intellectual right Sure, but my contention is that at best the intellectual right doesn't matter, and at its worst it's now an oxymoron.

noncoml 4y ago

Yeah, if anything this whole story helped reveal the two sides of HNers Those who are interested in technology in itself And those who are interested in technology as a means to be one rich and maybe powerful