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Easily. Besides being forced to allow sideloading and competing app stores, Apple & Google should be forced to allow competing browser engines and allow for pro

Easily. Besides being forced to allow sideloading and competing app stores, Apple & Google should be forced to allow competing browser engines and allow for progressive web apps to be installed just like ordinary apps.

agust 4y ago
Allowing competing browser engines is actually included in EU's DMA, so it should be happening at the same time as sideloading and competing app stores.
ko27 4y ago
Google does allow competing browser engines
elashri 4y ago
Google have an interest of being able to release chrome on iOS as it is the only thing in the way of chrome web domination. And it allow competing browsers on android.
Mikeb85 4y ago
I mean, Google Android already allows all these things...
- scarface74 4y ago
  And yet no company releases an iOS app and a web app and tell Android users to just use the web. Instead they also release an Android app. Just maybe web apps suck and it’s not mean old Apple holding PWAs back?
  - postalrat 4y ago
    Why would a company push their pwa when the app doesn't have any ad blocking but the pwa does?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      So why would companies that don’t depend on ads not just use a PWA for Android.
      - postalrat 4y ago
        So they can track your location with the GPS?
        scarface74 4y ago
        You realize that there are also JavaScript APIs where you can request gos location?
        postalrat 4y ago
        And its not nearly as accurate or as accessible as the app location apis are.
        scarface74 4y ago
        It’s exactly as accurate. The JS API gives you precise location data with your permission https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation...
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    I didn't say webapps are better... I said Android allowed all the things the parent listed with the implication being that it's a pretty open platform.
  - phillipseamore 4y ago
    How do you know the Android app isn't a PWA? The Google store allows you to list PWAs just like apps.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Can you name one semi popular app that has a native iOS version where the company feels like a PWA is good enough for Android users?
  - BackBlast 4y ago
    It's not that they suck. Most users probably can't even tell the difference on modern hardware. It's that you can't spy on your user nearly as effectively with a web app compared to what you get with native. You're limited to web APIs, instead of native APIs. Which is why, I believe, there is a full court press on so many sites to get mobile users away from websites and into their apps. I'm not alone in preferring to just use a website and not clutter my phone with apps for every online site I may interact with. Yet many sites actively press me to switch to the app including crippling the mobile version of the site. Removing features that work fine on desktop as soon as they detect a mobile client.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      You can definitely tell the difference in battery life when running Electron apps and badly energy optimized browsers (ie Chrome) in Electron apps. Even on mobile, there is a huge difference in responsiveness for instance with travel apps than the equivalent websites. I fly and stay in hotels a lot for both business and personal (digital nomadding flying everywhere across the US staying in hotels). > You're limited to web APIs, instead of native APIs. Which is why, I believe, there is a full court press on so many sites to get mobile users away from websites and into their apps So how can you both want web apps to have more native capabilities and want to avoid apps because they have too many native capabilities?
      - BackBlast 4y ago
        And yet I bet you often use "native apps" that are really just repackaged web views put into the app store. Without even knowing it. > So how can you both want web apps to have more native capabilities and want to avoid apps because they have too many native capabilities? You seem to totally miss my point. A native application can do things like sniff local bluetooth devices, track your GPS location, snoop your clipboard. Something a web app can't, because the web APIs have been much more carefully vetted for privacy. It's this fine grained user tracking that is behind the push towards using the app store. Companies want to know everything your doing, where you are, etc etc. That's much more difficult through a web API as compared to native APIs. This is why they will intentionally cripple their mobile sites and push to use their apps. They want native API level user tracking.
scarface74 4y ago
There are already “competing app stores” and sideloading on Android devices and even Epics attempts at bypassing Google Play was an abysmal failure.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  > abysmal failure In what way?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Monetarily? Popularity? Can you name one app that has seen wide spread adoption that uses an alternate App Store? Epic tried with Fortnite and they came crawling back to Google Play
    - wiseowise 4y ago
      > Monetarily? For who? I as a consumer, win monetarily because I can use good OSS apps and bypass shitty first-party ones. > Popularity? Popularity is a spectrum, you know. But judging by your comments, your definition of popularity is “more popular than Play Store”, in which case it would never be like that, since play store comes preinstalled and therefore has advantage. > Can you name one app that has seen wide spread adoption that uses an alternate App Store? Tmux, NewPipe. > Epic tried with Fortnite and they came crawling back to Google Play “System is so hostile to third parties that you have to buy into monopoly”, what a good reason to lock it down even further.

agust 4y ago

Allowing competing browser engines is actually included in EU's DMA, so it should be happening at the same time as sideloading and competing app stores.

ko27 4y ago

Google does allow competing browser engines

elashri 4y ago

Google have an interest of being able to release chrome on iOS as it is the only thing in the way of chrome web domination. And it allow competing browsers on android.

Mikeb85 4y ago

I mean, Google Android already allows all these things...

scarface74 4y ago
And yet no company releases an iOS app and a web app and tell Android users to just use the web. Instead they also release an Android app. Just maybe web apps suck and it’s not mean old Apple holding PWAs back?
- postalrat 4y ago
  Why would a company push their pwa when the app doesn't have any ad blocking but the pwa does?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So why would companies that don’t depend on ads not just use a PWA for Android.
    - postalrat 4y ago
      So they can track your location with the GPS?
      - scarface74 4y ago
        You realize that there are also JavaScript APIs where you can request gos location?
        postalrat 4y ago
        And its not nearly as accurate or as accessible as the app location apis are.
        scarface74 4y ago
        It’s exactly as accurate. The JS API gives you precise location data with your permission https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation...
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  I didn't say webapps are better... I said Android allowed all the things the parent listed with the implication being that it's a pretty open platform.
- phillipseamore 4y ago
  How do you know the Android app isn't a PWA? The Google store allows you to list PWAs just like apps.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Can you name one semi popular app that has a native iOS version where the company feels like a PWA is good enough for Android users?
- BackBlast 4y ago
  It's not that they suck. Most users probably can't even tell the difference on modern hardware. It's that you can't spy on your user nearly as effectively with a web app compared to what you get with native. You're limited to web APIs, instead of native APIs. Which is why, I believe, there is a full court press on so many sites to get mobile users away from websites and into their apps. I'm not alone in preferring to just use a website and not clutter my phone with apps for every online site I may interact with. Yet many sites actively press me to switch to the app including crippling the mobile version of the site. Removing features that work fine on desktop as soon as they detect a mobile client.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You can definitely tell the difference in battery life when running Electron apps and badly energy optimized browsers (ie Chrome) in Electron apps. Even on mobile, there is a huge difference in responsiveness for instance with travel apps than the equivalent websites. I fly and stay in hotels a lot for both business and personal (digital nomadding flying everywhere across the US staying in hotels). > You're limited to web APIs, instead of native APIs. Which is why, I believe, there is a full court press on so many sites to get mobile users away from websites and into their apps So how can you both want web apps to have more native capabilities and want to avoid apps because they have too many native capabilities?
    - BackBlast 4y ago
      And yet I bet you often use "native apps" that are really just repackaged web views put into the app store. Without even knowing it. > So how can you both want web apps to have more native capabilities and want to avoid apps because they have too many native capabilities? You seem to totally miss my point. A native application can do things like sniff local bluetooth devices, track your GPS location, snoop your clipboard. Something a web app can't, because the web APIs have been much more carefully vetted for privacy. It's this fine grained user tracking that is behind the push towards using the app store. Companies want to know everything your doing, where you are, etc etc. That's much more difficult through a web API as compared to native APIs. This is why they will intentionally cripple their mobile sites and push to use their apps. They want native API level user tracking.

scarface74 4y ago

There are already “competing app stores” and sideloading on Android devices and even Epics attempts at bypassing Google Play was an abysmal failure.

wiseowise 4y ago
> abysmal failure In what way?
- scarface74 4y ago
  Monetarily? Popularity? Can you name one app that has seen wide spread adoption that uses an alternate App Store? Epic tried with Fortnite and they came crawling back to Google Play
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    > Monetarily? For who? I as a consumer, win monetarily because I can use good OSS apps and bypass shitty first-party ones. > Popularity? Popularity is a spectrum, you know. But judging by your comments, your definition of popularity is “more popular than Play Store”, in which case it would never be like that, since play store comes preinstalled and therefore has advantage. > Can you name one app that has seen wide spread adoption that uses an alternate App Store? Tmux, NewPipe. > Epic tried with Fortnite and they came crawling back to Google Play “System is so hostile to third parties that you have to buy into monopoly”, what a good reason to lock it down even further.