12 ms·

> .. even though that is a direct personal safety risk The data is public, jesus christ. Though Musk-fans will eat this up.

by trymas 4y ago

duxup 4y ago
I’m convinced people don’t like/ read messages closely. They just like sentiment. So they’re happy to embrace what they think of as say a concept like freedom, even if it is the opposite.
id 4y ago
To be fair, public is not the same as easily accessible.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  It's easily accessible. Here you go: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ https://globe.adsbexchange.com/
  - foobarbecue 4y ago
    I don't see Elon's plane marked.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      It's not in the air right now. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af
      - foobarbecue 4y ago
        Ok, so now that you gave me the callsign, it IS effectively marked. Publishing someone's personal jet callsign should be treated similar to publishing someone's license plate number, phone number, or home address. And an organization like Twitter should have clear policies on that.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        The Senate Majority Leader's phone number is (202) 224-6542. Biden's home address is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Should posting those be actionable? Musk is a public figure, using public airspace, with a legally required ADS-B device that broadcasts its location, altitude, etc. to the public.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        _djo_ 4y ago
        The Federal Aviation Administration publishes this data openly. So, no. https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...
        foobarbecue 4y ago
        Interesting. I am surprised there is a "name" field. It has some random holding company ... but if you're an individual not playing the shell game, are you required to put your actual name there? Or is there an option not to?
        _djo_ 4y ago
        If you own an aircraft as an individual then your actual name must be listed.
        foobarbecue 4y ago
        Wow, ok. You really can search by people's first name and last name, and tail numbers come up. I'm surprised. I just assumed it was like license plate numbers; my bad.
        foobarbecue 4y ago
        Yikes, people. I didn't say twitter should ban posting license plates and airplane tail numbers, I was just saying those things are pretty equivalent and there should be a clear policy on it that is followed consistently.
  - wizeman 4y ago
    How do you know which of those 10,000 airplanes is Elon Musk's jet? I've searched for "Elon Musk jet callsign" but apart from the mentioned twitter account, I couldn't easily find out which one it was.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > apart from the mentioned twitter account The one covered in the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-tracking.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-...), Musk has publicly tweeted about (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456), offered $50k to remove (https://www.protocol.com/elon-musk-flight-tracker https://www.protocol.com/elon-musk-flight-tracker), and of a plane registered to "Falcon Landing LLC" at "1 Rocket Road, Hawthorne CA" (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...)? C'mon. We know it's his jet.
      - wizeman 4y ago
        > C'mon. We know it's his jet. Yes, we know. Because of the twitter account. My point is that it would be much harder to know which airplane is Elon's jet if it weren't for the twitter account. Which goes to the gp's point that even if the data is public, making it easily accessible increases Elon's personal safety risk. That said, the NYT story does seem to make my point a bit moot. In any case, I wasn't aware of that story, and it didn't come up when I searched for "Elon Musk jet callsign". Although I would guess a determined attacker could find it out given sufficient research.
        ceejayoz 4y ago
        > Although I would guess a determined attacker could find it out given sufficient research. You don't have to be determined; a college freshman on a lark found Musk, Gates, etc. and made Twitter accounts. This information is intentionally public; you can browse recent plane registrations at https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/RecentRegistrationResult https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/RecentRegist..., export it to CSV, with full name and address of each owner. I get a text message whenever my dad is seen in the air. @elonjet isn't the problem here. (IMO, there isn't a problem.)
fleddr 4y ago
Amplifying/republishing public data can lead to an increased security risk, whether you like Musk or not. This idea is widely acknowledged, with key example being the EU's "right to be forgotten". Which upon request removes personal information from search results, whilst it typically does not remove said info from the underlying individual websites. The very principle here is that a republication (search result) very much can be a security/privacy risk.
- dmix 4y ago
  It still feels dirty to do it secretly There should be a banner on the account or tweets with a justification or at a minimum an explanation for shadowbanning. Otherwise it's easy to abuse.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Why would he care if he abuses it?
- ModernMech 4y ago
  Sure I guess. But the line Musk himself drew was that he wouldn’t ban this or any account unless it was doing something illegal. It’s clearly not. So according to free speech absolutists like Musk, the banning of this account is a violation of the 1st amendment rights of the poster. (I don’t agree with that, but I spent weeks arguing with Musk supporters about this very fact. Now all of a sudden they are saying “it’s his right to do whatever he wants with Twitter”, which I agree with. But then why did Musk buy Twitter in the first place? Well now we know: to do whatever he wanted with it, not to champion free speech rights! Which is exactly what people were worried about! It’s all so frustrating…)
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    > it’s his right to do whatever he wants with Twitte The obvious response to anyone who says this is that the previous owners (and hence management appointed by said owners) similarly had that right… so why be upset about them - ha because their decisions didn’t align with you. Juts be careful, while Musk’s choices today might match your world view you should know that he only looks out for himself and will do whatever is his best interest and so the projection of being fundamentally pro speech is a mirage.
User23 4y ago
Your street address is public data too, but you probably don’t want it on Twitter.
- giaour 4y ago
  A private citizen's home address is definitely not public record. Perhaps you're thinking of home purchase records? Real estate title transfers are public, so if you buy a house in your own name, there will be a public record of that. But you can move, and AFAIK there is no annotation in the record of whether you intend to inhabit or rent out the purchased property.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Typically a mortgage will require the buyer to intend to use the property as their primary residence. If you want a loan to buy a house you intend to rent, you get a rider on the mortgage to that effect. So it is in the public records, if you used a purchase loan.
  - LinuxBender 4y ago
    Unless a home is purchased through a corporate or private trust laws around this vary by state, the homeowner is listed on a public state government database. Each state has their own unique system and each state has different bits of data. Some make it harder to reverse query by name rather than plot number, varies by state. There are some sites that index this data making reverse searches by name easier. If the private citizen is a renter there is another database used by rental companies that operates similar to a credit rating system, the name escapes me, but it's open to a large number of people to query. That system shows all current and prior residence of renters as well as missed payments and even has notes for problematic renters including but not limited to late payments, evictions, property damage, etc...
  - ericbarnes 4y ago
    If you own the home, then it'll be public through the county GIS. But you'd probably need to know the state/county first to find it.
  - 4y ago

> .. even though that is a direct personal safety risk The data is public, jesus christ. Though Musk-fans will eat this up.

by trymas 4y ago

> .. even though that is a direct personal safety risk The data is public, jesus christ. Though Musk-fans will eat this up.

duxup 4y ago

I’m convinced people don’t like/ read messages closely. They just like sentiment. So they’re happy to embrace what they think of as say a concept like freedom, even if it is the opposite.

id 4y ago

To be fair, public is not the same as easily accessible.

ceejayoz 4y ago
It's easily accessible. Here you go: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ https://globe.adsbexchange.com/
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  I don't see Elon's plane marked.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    It's not in the air right now. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af
    - foobarbecue 4y ago
      Ok, so now that you gave me the callsign, it IS effectively marked. Publishing someone's personal jet callsign should be treated similar to publishing someone's license plate number, phone number, or home address. And an organization like Twitter should have clear policies on that.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        The Senate Majority Leader's phone number is (202) 224-6542. Biden's home address is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Should posting those be actionable? Musk is a public figure, using public airspace, with a legally required ADS-B device that broadcasts its location, altitude, etc. to the public.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - _djo_ 4y ago
        The Federal Aviation Administration publishes this data openly. So, no. https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...
        foobarbecue 4y ago
        Interesting. I am surprised there is a "name" field. It has some random holding company ... but if you're an individual not playing the shell game, are you required to put your actual name there? Or is there an option not to?
        _djo_ 4y ago
        If you own an aircraft as an individual then your actual name must be listed.
        foobarbecue 4y ago
        Wow, ok. You really can search by people's first name and last name, and tail numbers come up. I'm surprised. I just assumed it was like license plate numbers; my bad.
      - foobarbecue 4y ago
        Yikes, people. I didn't say twitter should ban posting license plates and airplane tail numbers, I was just saying those things are pretty equivalent and there should be a clear policy on it that is followed consistently.
- wizeman 4y ago
  How do you know which of those 10,000 airplanes is Elon Musk's jet? I've searched for "Elon Musk jet callsign" but apart from the mentioned twitter account, I couldn't easily find out which one it was.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > apart from the mentioned twitter account The one covered in the NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-tracking.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/technology/elon-musk-jet-...), Musk has publicly tweeted about (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456), offered $50k to remove (https://www.protocol.com/elon-musk-flight-tracker https://www.protocol.com/elon-musk-flight-tracker), and of a plane registered to "Falcon Landing LLC" at "1 Rocket Road, Hawthorne CA" (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...)? C'mon. We know it's his jet.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      > C'mon. We know it's his jet. Yes, we know. Because of the twitter account. My point is that it would be much harder to know which airplane is Elon's jet if it weren't for the twitter account. Which goes to the gp's point that even if the data is public, making it easily accessible increases Elon's personal safety risk. That said, the NYT story does seem to make my point a bit moot. In any case, I wasn't aware of that story, and it didn't come up when I searched for "Elon Musk jet callsign". Although I would guess a determined attacker could find it out given sufficient research.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        > Although I would guess a determined attacker could find it out given sufficient research. You don't have to be determined; a college freshman on a lark found Musk, Gates, etc. and made Twitter accounts. This information is intentionally public; you can browse recent plane registrations at https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/RecentRegistrationResult https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/RecentRegist..., export it to CSV, with full name and address of each owner. I get a text message whenever my dad is seen in the air. @elonjet isn't the problem here. (IMO, there isn't a problem.)

fleddr 4y ago

Amplifying/republishing public data can lead to an increased security risk, whether you like Musk or not. This idea is widely acknowledged, with key example being the EU's "right to be forgotten". Which upon request removes personal information from search results, whilst it typically does not remove said info from the underlying individual websites. The very principle here is that a republication (search result) very much can be a security/privacy risk.

dmix 4y ago
It still feels dirty to do it secretly There should be a banner on the account or tweets with a justification or at a minimum an explanation for shadowbanning. Otherwise it's easy to abuse.
- lazide 4y ago
  Why would he care if he abuses it?
ModernMech 4y ago
Sure I guess. But the line Musk himself drew was that he wouldn’t ban this or any account unless it was doing something illegal. It’s clearly not. So according to free speech absolutists like Musk, the banning of this account is a violation of the 1st amendment rights of the poster. (I don’t agree with that, but I spent weeks arguing with Musk supporters about this very fact. Now all of a sudden they are saying “it’s his right to do whatever he wants with Twitter”, which I agree with. But then why did Musk buy Twitter in the first place? Well now we know: to do whatever he wanted with it, not to champion free speech rights! Which is exactly what people were worried about! It’s all so frustrating…)
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > it’s his right to do whatever he wants with Twitte The obvious response to anyone who says this is that the previous owners (and hence management appointed by said owners) similarly had that right… so why be upset about them - ha because their decisions didn’t align with you. Juts be careful, while Musk’s choices today might match your world view you should know that he only looks out for himself and will do whatever is his best interest and so the projection of being fundamentally pro speech is a mirage.

User23 4y ago

Your street address is public data too, but you probably don’t want it on Twitter.

giaour 4y ago
A private citizen's home address is definitely not public record. Perhaps you're thinking of home purchase records? Real estate title transfers are public, so if you buy a house in your own name, there will be a public record of that. But you can move, and AFAIK there is no annotation in the record of whether you intend to inhabit or rent out the purchased property.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Typically a mortgage will require the buyer to intend to use the property as their primary residence. If you want a loan to buy a house you intend to rent, you get a rider on the mortgage to that effect. So it is in the public records, if you used a purchase loan.
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  Unless a home is purchased through a corporate or private trust laws around this vary by state, the homeowner is listed on a public state government database. Each state has their own unique system and each state has different bits of data. Some make it harder to reverse query by name rather than plot number, varies by state. There are some sites that index this data making reverse searches by name easier. If the private citizen is a renter there is another database used by rental companies that operates similar to a credit rating system, the name escapes me, but it's open to a large number of people to query. That system shows all current and prior residence of renters as well as missed payments and even has notes for problematic renters including but not limited to late payments, evictions, property damage, etc...
- ericbarnes 4y ago
  If you own the home, then it'll be public through the county GIS. But you'd probably need to know the state/county first to find it.
- 4y ago