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I'm always split on this discussion about the Nordic Model. What about the people who really _want_ to do this? But the freedom for one person turns to economic

by maweki 4y ago

I'm always split on this discussion about the Nordic Model. What about the people who really _want_ to do this? But the freedom for one person turns to economic necessity for another. And the author notes that ("I had to get the money. [...] Some people need to pay for housing."). I am from Germany and we ponder this specific question but in the end, also similar ones: * Do we allow the freedom of regularily working more than 8hrs/day or 40hrs/week? Will there be pressure on the workers to put in those hours if its allowed? In the future, won't you be hired otherwise? * Do we (warning, cynicism) free ourselves from the chains of forced health insurance? Do we allow people to not spend the money? Is it worth the people who want health insurance but don't have the money? As it is mandatory, the state will provide it, if you don't earn enough. Will that be true in the future if we change the status quo? If we were sure, that people are not going into prostitution for economic reasons, but simply because they love the work, it would be great to do everything to allow for that path in a safe manner for all participants (for the clients as well). But given the lack of brain sifters to check the individual's motivations and given a capitalist economy, I see no chance of that happening anytime soon. So prohibition (while minimizing harm to the underprivileged) might be the best way in this economic system. People already sell their bodies once they go to work in a warehouse or a construction site. We might have to prevent people from the most harmful ways of selling their bodies, by prohibiting prostitution, organ sales, overworking, etc.. But also, where do you draw the line?

red_trumpet 4y ago
There is a podcast episode[1] from the "Ist das normal"-podcast, where they also discuss this. Iirc, the consensus was not do prohibit sex work, but to support sex workers to better their situation. Provide education, health services, help them if they want to get out of sex work, that kind of things. The article ends with > Men do fucked up things and these men who want to rape you in their daughter’s bed, they don’t care if it’s illegal or not. They will do it either way. But under the Nordic Model, women can call the police or go to a support group afterwards and get free trauma therapy. You can’t get that anywhere where they don’t have the Nordic Model. If he raped you, that is a crime. Everywhere in the western world. So yes, you should be able to go to the police and get therapy. [1] https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/zeit-doctor/2022-10/sexarbeit-beruf-moralvorstellung-sexualforschung-prostitution-sexpodcast https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/zeit-doctor/2022-10/sexarbeit...
snapplebobapple 4y ago
I think people get too hung up on economic reasons when instead they should be paying very close attention to where the coercion (if any) is coming from because I think there's much less of a difference between getting into sex work because one loves sex and getting into sex work because one loves the things sex work can buy for oneself than there is between either of those two and getting into sex work because there's a pimp that needs paying (or a severe drug addiction that needs funding). Also, you guys aren't allowed to work more than 40 hrs/ week? how do you ever go from rags to multi millionaires on 40 hours a week? Is it just all old money and a bunch of poor to middle class people largely dependent on the government over there or something?
- maweki 4y ago
  You can work as much as you want if you're self-employed. But regular employee contracts are limited to full-time. Overtime is not allowed to be regularly above the weekly limit. As a full-time student you're not allowed to work more than 20hrs/week. Even with multiple contracts/companies there is a limit on hours you're allowed to work. It's all a worker's protection issue. Tired workers are dangerous workers and workers that will cost the health service more in the end.

by maweki 4y ago

red_trumpet 4y ago

There is a podcast episode[1] from the "Ist das normal"-podcast, where they also discuss this. Iirc, the consensus was not do prohibit sex work, but to support sex workers to better their situation. Provide education, health services, help them if they want to get out of sex work, that kind of things. The article ends with > Men do fucked up things and these men who want to rape you in their daughter’s bed, they don’t care if it’s illegal or not. They will do it either way. But under the Nordic Model, women can call the police or go to a support group afterwards and get free trauma therapy. You can’t get that anywhere where they don’t have the Nordic Model. If he raped you, that is a crime. Everywhere in the western world. So yes, you should be able to go to the police and get therapy. [1] https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/zeit-doctor/2022-10/sexarbeit-beruf-moralvorstellung-sexualforschung-prostitution-sexpodcast https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/zeit-doctor/2022-10/sexarbeit...

snapplebobapple 4y ago

I think people get too hung up on economic reasons when instead they should be paying very close attention to where the coercion (if any) is coming from because I think there's much less of a difference between getting into sex work because one loves sex and getting into sex work because one loves the things sex work can buy for oneself than there is between either of those two and getting into sex work because there's a pimp that needs paying (or a severe drug addiction that needs funding). Also, you guys aren't allowed to work more than 40 hrs/ week? how do you ever go from rags to multi millionaires on 40 hours a week? Is it just all old money and a bunch of poor to middle class people largely dependent on the government over there or something?

maweki 4y ago
You can work as much as you want if you're self-employed. But regular employee contracts are limited to full-time. Overtime is not allowed to be regularly above the weekly limit. As a full-time student you're not allowed to work more than 20hrs/week. Even with multiple contracts/companies there is a limit on hours you're allowed to work. It's all a worker's protection issue. Tired workers are dangerous workers and workers that will cost the health service more in the end.