5 ms·

Voice assistants failed because they serve their makers more than help users

39 points by samizdis 4y ago

account-5 4y ago
I can't be the only person to have identified the actual motives behind providing these assistants; that is collecting data for targeted advertising and profile building.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  No, you are not. I'm still waiting for the world to realize that every Google product has the same motive --- data collection and privacy invasion. Lately, their focus has turned toward using security as a privacy invasion tool.
  - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
    And not just Google, or per the article Amazon and Apple. While I'm long out of the Windows ecosystem (my Year of the Linux Desktop was a decade and a a half ago), it's been noted it has partly changed from a product you use to get your stuff done to a platform to sell you more stuff from Microsoft, plus whatever they might be doing or will do with its build in advertising.
    - jqpabc123 4y ago
      And not just Google, or per the article Amazon and Apple. Of these, Google is by far the worst in my opinion. Mainly because they don't sell any other product. *You* are their primary product. Amazon is eating an increasing chunk of Google's lunch. They promote advertising in about the only way it really makes sense to me --- on their web site --- where I go to express an interest in buying a specific product. partly changed from a product you use to get your stuff done to a platform to sell you more stuff from Microsoft Yes, a predictable response to competition in the form it has taken.
melling 4y ago
“Failed” as in failed to be a profitable business model. I’ve got 3 Echo Dots and use them everyday. They do have limited use but people still buy them. For $15 USD, it’s a no brainer purchase. As language models improve the device will become more useful but there’s no point in waiting.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  For $15 USD, it’s a no brainer purchase. It turns out that Amazon is subsidizing these things and is on track to lose $10 billion on them this year alone. The price of everything on Amazon is higher because of these cheap toys. no point in waiting No point in buying if they aren't sustainable.
  - melling 4y ago
    Why don’t you give that a little more thought. They aren’t losing $10 billion on hardware on a $15 device.
    - jqpabc123 4y ago
      The hardware obviously isn't the only cost. The stats I've seen say they sold roughly 80 million of these this year. To be sustainable, this $15 device would have to cost in the neighborhood of $115 each. If they can't sell them for at least a break even price, they are likely to do what Microsoft did and shut the whole thing down --- and leave you with a cheap brick. Their initial plan and motivation was flawed. They were expecting consumers to use these things to just blindly order stuff from Amazon --- at a price most advantageous to Amazon of course. Consumers may be pretty stupid but it turns out they aren't *that* stupid --- enough to blindly make purchases just for the thrill of doing it with their voice. Very few are using them for this. Why don’t you give that a little more thought. Is this enough thinking for you?
      - Tagbert 4y ago
        While I agree that the Alexa devices would cost more if they were a normal product, $115 is too high. The Apple HomePod Mini sells for $99 and Apple is known to maintain a higher margin (average 35%) on their products than most other manufacturers. Assuming a similar cost for the Alexa (likely cheaper as the HomePod is a better speaker) and a lower margin puts the most likely retail price for an Alexa at around $70-75.
froglets 4y ago
Voice assistants are still great for kids who are too young to read or google things. A child can ask google assistant how to prevent spaghetti sticking together and get a better answer than a lot of parents would give them. They are really useful as media players too, especially the ones that can also control a tv and soundbar.
- temple_os 4y ago
  Struggling to think of a child who has all three of: has a google assistant, has to cook themselves dinner; too young to know how to read.
  - troyvit 4y ago
    Yeah that's a little scary! It's like "There will come soft rains" but with a toddler kickin' around the house.[1] [1] https://lecturia.org/en/short-stories/ray-bradbury-there-will-come-soft-rains/7775/ https://lecturia.org/en/short-stories/ray-bradbury-there-wil...
boppo1 4y ago
I have avoided voice assistant stuff almost entirely. I can't fathom what I would want it for. Then I house-sat for someone with a fully-connected google home. Turning on/off/dimming lights by voice and playing stuff on Spotify by voice is pretty excellent. Not excellent enough to make me forget the real goals of the device, but excellent indeed.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  The sad fact is that all this could easily be done without privacy invasion --- but obviously not as cheaply.
- lsaferite 4y ago
  Our family uses Alexa for a few things. 1. Music 2. Family Room TV control (we lose the remote a lot) 3. Interaction with the Home Automation system to a small degree (mostly triggering scenes without needing to hit a button). 4. Weather 5. Timers/Reminders 6. House-wide announcements On the few occasions we've asked questions, the garbage responses have trained us to _not_ do that. Edit: Forgot to include my point. The only things on that list we actively do that could justifiably say they need remote access to work are music streaming and weather. And we could be local on music if we limited ourselves to owned libraries instead of streaming services.
  - jghn 4y ago
    Pretty much the same list at my home. I also use Siri on my apple watch for more personal things: todos, reminders, other me-specific interactions. One issue I find to be huge but haven't seen mentioned in this thread is household assistants require shared accounts. So I can tell my watch "Remind me in 30 mins to buy that present for my partner" but if I did it on my Alexa they'd also see it. And thus we only use Alexa for truly household-wide things. IMO a killer app would be voiceprint detection and an ability to funnel the speaker to their own account for things.
    - lsaferite 4y ago
      Alexa supports multiple profiles and voice print detection for profile owners. It's actually quit annoying TBH. I set it up a long time ago but it never really had any issues until recently. My wife's account is the one linked to the HA instance and it always voice prints me to my profile which isn't set up for HA control I guess. I'm not sure if they changed something about how HA stuff works on the backend or what, but I'll resolve it at some point.
aaron695 4y ago
jabroni_salad 4y ago
Weird take. I think the real reason they failed is because people don't actually want much from them after the novelty factor wears off. "By the way, I can..." You are a light switch "Oh my god"
- eimrine 4y ago
  What I might possibly want from an adware service? Should I expect them to help me get rid of keyboard?
  - jabroni_salad 4y ago
    yeah... zero touch kitchen timers, music playing, and other doodad control is desirable. If you ever develop arthritis or get old you will see what I mean. I'm not sure why techbros thought it would be the next multi-zillion dollar idea, though. Even with the adware they arent exactly making money from it.
troyvit 4y ago
This article makes me really curious about how Mycroft.ai will fare. Its makers have a different aim than the other voice assistance (privacy friendly voice assistant). I ordered one when they started their crowd campaign years ago and they're finally shipping. Between then and now my interest in voice command has plunged dramatically (I don't know why), and I wonder if their other potential users feel the same way. The fact that they aren't mentioned yet in this thread is depressingly telling.
Hanschri 4y ago
Does HN have any recommendations for offline voice assistants? I just want a voice assistant which can do basic things for me locally without connecting to the internet for simple tasks such as adding things to my calendar or a note, playing a song, opening an app and alike. I'm using Android, but I'm sure others using iOS would also appreciate some suggestions.
Eleison23 4y ago
I have a friend who uses Siri to great effect. Sometimes I use voice typing. I have decided a few times that Android's Google Assistant is mature enough for me to try it out. But for two fatal flaws: it can't do anything useful, and I don't know how to speak to it. The Assistant can't arbitrarily control other apps on a program, for instance if I want to say "log into my bank and check my balance on checking" there's no interface for that. We're left with mundane crap like "set an alarm at 10am." Furthermore, I don't know the vocabulary of my Assistant. To be understood properly on the CLI, I've learned how to speak to Infocom's z-Machine, the Bourne shell, Cisco routers, hell I'm a full-fledged Protocol Droid at this point. But I have no idea what to say after "OK, Google!"
faeriechangling 4y ago
Sounds like they’re trying too hard to push a narrative with that headline. Voice assistants didn’t fail at all, they just have a limited use case. Amazons delusions people would order products using their Alexa never were going to work.

39 points by samizdis 4y ago

I can't be the only person to have identified the actual motives behind providing these assistants; that is collecting data for targeted advertising and profile building.

jqpabc123 4y ago
No, you are not. I'm still waiting for the world to realize that every Google product has the same motive --- data collection and privacy invasion. Lately, their focus has turned toward using security as a privacy invasion tool.
- Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
  And not just Google, or per the article Amazon and Apple. While I'm long out of the Windows ecosystem (my Year of the Linux Desktop was a decade and a a half ago), it's been noted it has partly changed from a product you use to get your stuff done to a platform to sell you more stuff from Microsoft, plus whatever they might be doing or will do with its build in advertising.
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    And not just Google, or per the article Amazon and Apple. Of these, Google is by far the worst in my opinion. Mainly because they don't sell any other product. *You* are their primary product. Amazon is eating an increasing chunk of Google's lunch. They promote advertising in about the only way it really makes sense to me --- on their web site --- where I go to express an interest in buying a specific product. partly changed from a product you use to get your stuff done to a platform to sell you more stuff from Microsoft Yes, a predictable response to competition in the form it has taken.

melling 4y ago

“Failed” as in failed to be a profitable business model. I’ve got 3 Echo Dots and use them everyday. They do have limited use but people still buy them. For $15 USD, it’s a no brainer purchase. As language models improve the device will become more useful but there’s no point in waiting.

jqpabc123 4y ago
For $15 USD, it’s a no brainer purchase. It turns out that Amazon is subsidizing these things and is on track to lose $10 billion on them this year alone. The price of everything on Amazon is higher because of these cheap toys. no point in waiting No point in buying if they aren't sustainable.
- melling 4y ago
  Why don’t you give that a little more thought. They aren’t losing $10 billion on hardware on a $15 device.
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    The hardware obviously isn't the only cost. The stats I've seen say they sold roughly 80 million of these this year. To be sustainable, this $15 device would have to cost in the neighborhood of $115 each. If they can't sell them for at least a break even price, they are likely to do what Microsoft did and shut the whole thing down --- and leave you with a cheap brick. Their initial plan and motivation was flawed. They were expecting consumers to use these things to just blindly order stuff from Amazon --- at a price most advantageous to Amazon of course. Consumers may be pretty stupid but it turns out they aren't *that* stupid --- enough to blindly make purchases just for the thrill of doing it with their voice. Very few are using them for this. Why don’t you give that a little more thought. Is this enough thinking for you?
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      While I agree that the Alexa devices would cost more if they were a normal product, $115 is too high. The Apple HomePod Mini sells for $99 and Apple is known to maintain a higher margin (average 35%) on their products than most other manufacturers. Assuming a similar cost for the Alexa (likely cheaper as the HomePod is a better speaker) and a lower margin puts the most likely retail price for an Alexa at around $70-75.

froglets 4y ago

Voice assistants are still great for kids who are too young to read or google things. A child can ask google assistant how to prevent spaghetti sticking together and get a better answer than a lot of parents would give them. They are really useful as media players too, especially the ones that can also control a tv and soundbar.

temple_os 4y ago
Struggling to think of a child who has all three of: has a google assistant, has to cook themselves dinner; too young to know how to read.
- troyvit 4y ago
  Yeah that's a little scary! It's like "There will come soft rains" but with a toddler kickin' around the house.[1] [1] https://lecturia.org/en/short-stories/ray-bradbury-there-will-come-soft-rains/7775/ https://lecturia.org/en/short-stories/ray-bradbury-there-wil...

boppo1 4y ago

I have avoided voice assistant stuff almost entirely. I can't fathom what I would want it for. Then I house-sat for someone with a fully-connected google home. Turning on/off/dimming lights by voice and playing stuff on Spotify by voice is pretty excellent. Not excellent enough to make me forget the real goals of the device, but excellent indeed.

jqpabc123 4y ago
The sad fact is that all this could easily be done without privacy invasion --- but obviously not as cheaply.
lsaferite 4y ago
Our family uses Alexa for a few things. 1. Music 2. Family Room TV control (we lose the remote a lot) 3. Interaction with the Home Automation system to a small degree (mostly triggering scenes without needing to hit a button). 4. Weather 5. Timers/Reminders 6. House-wide announcements On the few occasions we've asked questions, the garbage responses have trained us to _not_ do that. Edit: Forgot to include my point. The only things on that list we actively do that could justifiably say they need remote access to work are music streaming and weather. And we could be local on music if we limited ourselves to owned libraries instead of streaming services.
- jghn 4y ago
  Pretty much the same list at my home. I also use Siri on my apple watch for more personal things: todos, reminders, other me-specific interactions. One issue I find to be huge but haven't seen mentioned in this thread is household assistants require shared accounts. So I can tell my watch "Remind me in 30 mins to buy that present for my partner" but if I did it on my Alexa they'd also see it. And thus we only use Alexa for truly household-wide things. IMO a killer app would be voiceprint detection and an ability to funnel the speaker to their own account for things.
  - lsaferite 4y ago
    Alexa supports multiple profiles and voice print detection for profile owners. It's actually quit annoying TBH. I set it up a long time ago but it never really had any issues until recently. My wife's account is the one linked to the HA instance and it always voice prints me to my profile which isn't set up for HA control I guess. I'm not sure if they changed something about how HA stuff works on the backend or what, but I'll resolve it at some point.

aaron695 4y ago

jabroni_salad 4y ago

Weird take. I think the real reason they failed is because people don't actually want much from them after the novelty factor wears off. "By the way, I can..." You are a light switch "Oh my god"

eimrine 4y ago
What I might possibly want from an adware service? Should I expect them to help me get rid of keyboard?
- jabroni_salad 4y ago
  yeah... zero touch kitchen timers, music playing, and other doodad control is desirable. If you ever develop arthritis or get old you will see what I mean. I'm not sure why techbros thought it would be the next multi-zillion dollar idea, though. Even with the adware they arent exactly making money from it.

troyvit 4y ago

This article makes me really curious about how Mycroft.ai will fare. Its makers have a different aim than the other voice assistance (privacy friendly voice assistant). I ordered one when they started their crowd campaign years ago and they're finally shipping. Between then and now my interest in voice command has plunged dramatically (I don't know why), and I wonder if their other potential users feel the same way. The fact that they aren't mentioned yet in this thread is depressingly telling.

Hanschri 4y ago

Does HN have any recommendations for offline voice assistants? I just want a voice assistant which can do basic things for me locally without connecting to the internet for simple tasks such as adding things to my calendar or a note, playing a song, opening an app and alike. I'm using Android, but I'm sure others using iOS would also appreciate some suggestions.

Eleison23 4y ago

I have a friend who uses Siri to great effect. Sometimes I use voice typing. I have decided a few times that Android's Google Assistant is mature enough for me to try it out. But for two fatal flaws: it can't do anything useful, and I don't know how to speak to it. The Assistant can't arbitrarily control other apps on a program, for instance if I want to say "log into my bank and check my balance on checking" there's no interface for that. We're left with mundane crap like "set an alarm at 10am." Furthermore, I don't know the vocabulary of my Assistant. To be understood properly on the CLI, I've learned how to speak to Infocom's z-Machine, the Bourne shell, Cisco routers, hell I'm a full-fledged Protocol Droid at this point. But I have no idea what to say after "OK, Google!"

faeriechangling 4y ago

Sounds like they’re trying too hard to push a narrative with that headline. Voice assistants didn’t fail at all, they just have a limited use case. Amazons delusions people would order products using their Alexa never were going to work.