4 ms·

Is it just me or is 140mil not that much? Also telling that the 'flagbearer' of the Chinese semiconductor industry is a thief. This industry is moving way too f

by midasz 4y ago

Is it just me or is 140mil not that much? Also telling that the 'flagbearer' of the Chinese semiconductor industry is a thief. This industry is moving way too fast to copy properly. Doing business with these guys basically excludes you from ever doing business with ASML. You'd be forever behind technologically.

varispeed 4y ago
Given the shortages, it's often hmm should I close my business or bite the bullet and go with Chinese? If Chinese didn't copy things like STM32, many businesses would be bankrupt now. The problem is that often manufacturers only care about big customers and view SMEs as nuisance, that's where China comes in.
- Roark66 4y ago
  If Chinese didn't break their economy by silly covid lock downs that _still_ continue we wouldn't have shortages in the first place. Also I'm in favour of not calling it shortages, but "price gauges bonanza" as that is what it is essentially. Have you tried to buy a real fpga recently? Yes, many types are available, but the prices.... It is not really that surprising, if the only thing that kept prices in check was cheap competition from China and that competition was practically killed off by their own gov. Why would remaining companies not monetise this new market conditions by increasing prices?
  - varispeed 4y ago
    Yes, the Covid lockdowns are not helping, but I read (sorry for conspiracy theory) that these aren't really about Covid, but the real goal is to disrupt western supply chains as part of hybrid warfare. There is another aspect - Military Indistrial Complexes waking up around the world - and those under sanctions especially, buy MCUs and other parts from regular channels creating those shortages. For instance STM32F7 and H7 that are well used for control boards in drones and other military equipment are still unobtainium and unfortunately Chinese have not managed to clone them yet. > Why would remaining companies not monetise this new market conditions by increasing prices? Some product prices indeed are going up.
xiphias2 4y ago
Can you tell any country in the history of civilization that didn't get ahead of others by being a thief?
- hereme888 4y ago
  Lots. Let"s start with the US, who got ahead thanks to it's revolutionary form of government, constitution, and visionary citizens. I do expect to get downvoted by US haters.
  - kjeetgill 4y ago
    I'm not a US hater at all and agree with everything you've listed ... And a lot of thievery, broken treaties, and cheating too. How that makes you feel about the US — or about thievery's morality and place in history — is an exercise left to the reader. But I think that's a fair read of the history.
  - medvezhenok 4y ago
    Let's not also forget the expropriation of land from the natives and slavery... They also "steal" ideas by importing foreign well educated citizens by using money that was partially sourced via exploitation in the first place. The main thing that allowed American innovation is the fact that they are not under threat of a land or sea invasion due to the geography. This always gave them an advantage of being able to think long-term without being worried about war destroying their efforts. Don't get me wrong - I am an immigrant to the U.S., and the U.S. is a great and successful country with many opportunities for all. The three things you mention certainly play a role in its success, but they're not the only factors by far.
  - xiphias2 4y ago
    I was refering to US as a great example of a country starting with lots of IP theft then closing the door behind them by making it illegal and pushing the updated IP rights on other countries. I'm not a US hater at all, I think it's an amazing country, but it's also a great example of how to build one. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_theft_is_what_once_helped_make_america_great_103367.html https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef...

by midasz 4y ago

varispeed 4y ago

Given the shortages, it's often hmm should I close my business or bite the bullet and go with Chinese? If Chinese didn't copy things like STM32, many businesses would be bankrupt now. The problem is that often manufacturers only care about big customers and view SMEs as nuisance, that's where China comes in.

Roark66 4y ago
If Chinese didn't break their economy by silly covid lock downs that _still_ continue we wouldn't have shortages in the first place. Also I'm in favour of not calling it shortages, but "price gauges bonanza" as that is what it is essentially. Have you tried to buy a real fpga recently? Yes, many types are available, but the prices.... It is not really that surprising, if the only thing that kept prices in check was cheap competition from China and that competition was practically killed off by their own gov. Why would remaining companies not monetise this new market conditions by increasing prices?
- varispeed 4y ago
  Yes, the Covid lockdowns are not helping, but I read (sorry for conspiracy theory) that these aren't really about Covid, but the real goal is to disrupt western supply chains as part of hybrid warfare. There is another aspect - Military Indistrial Complexes waking up around the world - and those under sanctions especially, buy MCUs and other parts from regular channels creating those shortages. For instance STM32F7 and H7 that are well used for control boards in drones and other military equipment are still unobtainium and unfortunately Chinese have not managed to clone them yet. > Why would remaining companies not monetise this new market conditions by increasing prices? Some product prices indeed are going up.

xiphias2 4y ago

Can you tell any country in the history of civilization that didn't get ahead of others by being a thief?

hereme888 4y ago
Lots. Let"s start with the US, who got ahead thanks to it's revolutionary form of government, constitution, and visionary citizens. I do expect to get downvoted by US haters.
- kjeetgill 4y ago
  I'm not a US hater at all and agree with everything you've listed ... And a lot of thievery, broken treaties, and cheating too. How that makes you feel about the US — or about thievery's morality and place in history — is an exercise left to the reader. But I think that's a fair read of the history.
- medvezhenok 4y ago
  Let's not also forget the expropriation of land from the natives and slavery... They also "steal" ideas by importing foreign well educated citizens by using money that was partially sourced via exploitation in the first place. The main thing that allowed American innovation is the fact that they are not under threat of a land or sea invasion due to the geography. This always gave them an advantage of being able to think long-term without being worried about war destroying their efforts. Don't get me wrong - I am an immigrant to the U.S., and the U.S. is a great and successful country with many opportunities for all. The three things you mention certainly play a role in its success, but they're not the only factors by far.
- xiphias2 4y ago
  I was refering to US as a great example of a country starting with lots of IP theft then closing the door behind them by making it illegal and pushing the updated IP rights on other countries. I'm not a US hater at all, I think it's an amazing country, but it's also a great example of how to build one. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_theft_is_what_once_helped_make_america_great_103367.html https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef...