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China does not recognize patent law, therefore they could not have stole anything. I am all for recognition of one's discovery but the patent law in "the west"

by hknmtt 4y ago

China does not recognize patent law, therefore they could not have stole anything. I am all for recognition of one's discovery but the patent law in "the west" went too far and is more a retarder rather than accelerator of progress.

uvesten 4y ago
Well, luckily China does not control the language used on HN or in the world in general, so stole it is.
Veen 4y ago
Seems untrue: > In 1985, China acceded to the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property, followed by the Patent Cooperation Treaty in 1994. When China joined the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, it became a member of the TRIPS agreement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_law_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_law_of_China
bostonian10 4y ago
- Sakos 4y ago
  The US did the same thing early on to Europe. It makes economic sense to steal IP, but that doesn't mean we should be okay with China doing it to us. They're still an economic and geopolitical rival and if we want to maintain our standard of living, maybe not give away all of our competitive advantages (since we've already handed over all our manufacturing).
  - jq-r 4y ago
    This argument makes my head spin. So as long as we’re hypocritical and pull up the ladder behind us - that’s fine, we don’t want to jeopardize our standard of living? Or the nicely worded phrase usually used in conjunction with boomer generation: “screw you, I’ve got mine.” Is this what we’ve came down to?
    - Sakos 4y ago
      > Is this what we’ve came down to? You mean economic competition? I'm not sure what you're expecting here. This is how the world works. China refuses to adhere to IP law that others do. Our companies and governments spend billions upon billions on R&D. That R&D basically keeps the West relevant. In what way is it okay for that to be stolen? Meanwhile, China doesn't allow Western companies to operate in China, instead they're required to partner with a Chinese company and transfer technology. I think we've been MORE than fair with China in the past 20-30 years. We're a huge reason why they were able to raise HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS out of poverty and into the middle-class, the largest success story of the past 3 decades. > Or the nicely worded phrase usually used in conjunction with boomer generation: “screw you, I’ve got mine.” Yeah, no. Not the point. PS: I'm German.
    - Veen 4y ago
      That's how competition works. It's not what "we've come down to". It's what we've always been and ever will be. If the Chinese overtake the West, they'll be just as protective of Chinese IP as we are of Western IP. We compete and act to protect our own interests, as we should—it's what nations are for.
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  IGE/IPI was established[0] in 1888. And I think most of the "outcompetition" came due to avoiding the neighbours' strife. (the watch industry originated with Huguenot refugees from France, and relatively speaking, the difference between Heidi's depiction of an 1881 poor country contrasted to the rich people in Frankfurt, Germany, and todays perception of a rich country, lies in not having been bombed to rubble not once but twice during the last century) [0] https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/the-history-of-the-ipi https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/the-history-of-the-ipi [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi
krasin 4y ago
> China does not recognize patent law, therefore they could not have stole anything. Here, an actual IP theft (as in "files on a USB stick") is involved. Not just violating patents.
Brybry 4y ago
Looks like they have patent law to me? Even ignoring treaties and such: "Article 42 The duration of an invention patent shall be twenty years, the duration of the patent for a utility model or design shall be ten years, counted from the date of application." [1][2] [1] http://mg.mofcom.gov.cn/article/policy/201910/20191002905592.shtml http://mg.mofcom.gov.cn/article/policy/201910/20191002905592... [2] http://www.npc.gov.cn/npc/c30834/202011/82354d98e70947c09dbc5e4eeb78bdf3.shtml http://www.npc.gov.cn/npc/c30834/202011/82354d98e70947c09dbc...

by hknmtt 4y ago

uvesten 4y ago

Well, luckily China does not control the language used on HN or in the world in general, so stole it is.

Veen 4y ago

Seems untrue: > In 1985, China acceded to the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property, followed by the Patent Cooperation Treaty in 1994. When China joined the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, it became a member of the TRIPS agreement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_law_of_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_law_of_China

bostonian10 4y ago

Sakos 4y ago
The US did the same thing early on to Europe. It makes economic sense to steal IP, but that doesn't mean we should be okay with China doing it to us. They're still an economic and geopolitical rival and if we want to maintain our standard of living, maybe not give away all of our competitive advantages (since we've already handed over all our manufacturing).
- jq-r 4y ago
  This argument makes my head spin. So as long as we’re hypocritical and pull up the ladder behind us - that’s fine, we don’t want to jeopardize our standard of living? Or the nicely worded phrase usually used in conjunction with boomer generation: “screw you, I’ve got mine.” Is this what we’ve came down to?
  - Sakos 4y ago
    > Is this what we’ve came down to? You mean economic competition? I'm not sure what you're expecting here. This is how the world works. China refuses to adhere to IP law that others do. Our companies and governments spend billions upon billions on R&D. That R&D basically keeps the West relevant. In what way is it okay for that to be stolen? Meanwhile, China doesn't allow Western companies to operate in China, instead they're required to partner with a Chinese company and transfer technology. I think we've been MORE than fair with China in the past 20-30 years. We're a huge reason why they were able to raise HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS out of poverty and into the middle-class, the largest success story of the past 3 decades. > Or the nicely worded phrase usually used in conjunction with boomer generation: “screw you, I’ve got mine.” Yeah, no. Not the point. PS: I'm German.
  - Veen 4y ago
    That's how competition works. It's not what "we've come down to". It's what we've always been and ever will be. If the Chinese overtake the West, they'll be just as protective of Chinese IP as we are of Western IP. We compete and act to protect our own interests, as we should—it's what nations are for.
082349872349872 4y ago
IGE/IPI was established[0] in 1888. And I think most of the "outcompetition" came due to avoiding the neighbours' strife. (the watch industry originated with Huguenot refugees from France, and relatively speaking, the difference between Heidi's depiction of an 1881 poor country contrasted to the rich people in Frankfurt, Germany, and todays perception of a rich country, lies in not having been bombed to rubble not once but twice during the last century) [0] https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/the-history-of-the-ipi https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/the-history-of-the-ipi [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi

krasin 4y ago

> China does not recognize patent law, therefore they could not have stole anything. Here, an actual IP theft (as in "files on a USB stick") is involved. Not just violating patents.

Brybry 4y ago

Looks like they have patent law to me? Even ignoring treaties and such: "Article 42 The duration of an invention patent shall be twenty years, the duration of the patent for a utility model or design shall be ten years, counted from the date of application." [1][2] [1] http://mg.mofcom.gov.cn/article/policy/201910/20191002905592.shtml http://mg.mofcom.gov.cn/article/policy/201910/20191002905592... [2] http://www.npc.gov.cn/npc/c30834/202011/82354d98e70947c09dbc5e4eeb78bdf3.shtml http://www.npc.gov.cn/npc/c30834/202011/82354d98e70947c09dbc...