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Doesn’t the fact that Sony and Apple put FreeBSD-derivatives into more end users hands than Linux ever reached (depending on how you view Android) count as bein

Doesn’t the fact that Sony and Apple put FreeBSD-derivatives into more end users hands than Linux ever reached (depending on how you view Android) count as being successful?

tadfisher 4y ago
Sony and Apple don't benefit from each other's changes, and neither do users of FreeBSD. I like that you brought up Android, because the experience in shipping kernels to billions of devices has led to numerous upstream improvements, as well as an ecosystem of devices that support other Linux-based operating systems. Sony and Apple don't enable this by forking FreeBSD.
- catiopatio 4y ago
  If Sony and Apple contribute their changes upstream, they benefit from each other’s changes. If they do not contribute upstream, they do not benefit from each other’s changes. That’s their choice. It’s arrogantly coercive and authoritarian to try to use market position to force them to make one choice or another.
- blablabla123 4y ago
  Wasn't the Android project criticized for years because they didn't put in the effort for upstreamable changes? After all the modifications mentioned are probably quite use-case specific. Not sure how much this can be generalized
- einherjae 4y ago
  Apple’s BSD stuff is mostly open sourced by them though: https://opensource.apple.com/releases/ https://opensource.apple.com/releases/ It used to be even more comprehensive, which enabled projects like OpenDarwin to exist, but yes upstream can benefit to at least some degree. And this happens even though there is no copyleft forcing them. Remember that if you retain your own fork, you now also own the maintenance, including aligning your proprietary changes with incoming upstream stuff.
alerighi 4y ago
Well if you count Linux devices... probably one have 10 or more in their homes, just count the number of embedded devices that has Linux inside, routers, smart TV, set top boxes, NAS, IP security cameras, VOIP phones, hell this day you probably have Linux even in washing machines!

Doesn’t the fact that Sony and Apple put FreeBSD-derivatives into more end users hands than Linux ever reached (depending on how you view Android) count as being successful?

tadfisher 4y ago

Sony and Apple don't benefit from each other's changes, and neither do users of FreeBSD. I like that you brought up Android, because the experience in shipping kernels to billions of devices has led to numerous upstream improvements, as well as an ecosystem of devices that support other Linux-based operating systems. Sony and Apple don't enable this by forking FreeBSD.

catiopatio 4y ago
If Sony and Apple contribute their changes upstream, they benefit from each other’s changes. If they do not contribute upstream, they do not benefit from each other’s changes. That’s their choice. It’s arrogantly coercive and authoritarian to try to use market position to force them to make one choice or another.
blablabla123 4y ago
Wasn't the Android project criticized for years because they didn't put in the effort for upstreamable changes? After all the modifications mentioned are probably quite use-case specific. Not sure how much this can be generalized
einherjae 4y ago
Apple’s BSD stuff is mostly open sourced by them though: https://opensource.apple.com/releases/ https://opensource.apple.com/releases/ It used to be even more comprehensive, which enabled projects like OpenDarwin to exist, but yes upstream can benefit to at least some degree. And this happens even though there is no copyleft forcing them. Remember that if you retain your own fork, you now also own the maintenance, including aligning your proprietary changes with incoming upstream stuff.

alerighi 4y ago

Well if you count Linux devices... probably one have 10 or more in their homes, just count the number of embedded devices that has Linux inside, routers, smart TV, set top boxes, NAS, IP security cameras, VOIP phones, hell this day you probably have Linux even in washing machines!