7 ms·

On-skin telehaptic device allows users to transmit touch remotely

61 points by WaitWaitWha 4y ago

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
Teledildonics
- tudorw 4y ago
  thanks Ted :)
- Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  A required all-star classic introductory video for the topic about connecting emacs and the emerging field of teledildonics. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wyc3i https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wyc3i
  - qdot76367 4y ago
    Awww thanks heh. Really gotta redo that with https://buttplug.io https://buttplug.io someday.
    - Traubenfuchs 4y ago
      Some might be amazed to find the Stripe or Cloudflare CTOs here mopping up the PR disasters their companies "limited customer support" caused but I am amazed I find the creator of one weird video I watched many years ago I could never forget. How old is it actually? dailymotion says 7 years but I feel I watched it at least 15 years ago.
10g1k 4y ago
Taking e-girls to their inevitable destination.
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  They can easily jerk off 800 guys at the same time without calculating D2F or anything else! https://youtu.be/P-hUV9yhqgY https://youtu.be/P-hUV9yhqgY
EricHaptics 4y ago
Nothing new under the sun. The innovation everyone is waiting in haptics is on the actuator side. The patches are vibrating, but humans perceive static and low frequency forces mostly. This create a haptic metaphor which always sucks. The rest is easy, or easy to figure out. Never heard telehaptics as term in my whole life
- JackMcMack 4y ago
  I strongly agree, the innovation needed is in haptics on the actuator side. Can you expand on the static and low frequency? My impression was that if you're aiming for fingertips, higher frequency has more resolution. Iirc braille is mostly sensed by the vibration of the ridges of your fingerprint, when moving your finger over the dots. For this reason single character braille displays never really took off, you need an entire row (typically 40 characters) to make a usable refreshable braille display. I've looked at the actuator array in the paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41528-022-00216-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41528-022-00216-1 It's made with "standard" multilayer pzt actuators, with a displacement of 1000nm at 60V. That's apparently above the sensing threshold, but imho not enough for practical applications. I am curious about the fabrication methods though. The 1mm actuators are in a checkerboard pattern, and apparently reflow soldered. I'm curious how they did that while staying below the curie temperature of the actuators (typically <150°C for PZT), and if that is mechanically sufficient. It's still very impressive work.
  - EricHaptics 4y ago
    Sure. Perceptual modes are specific mechanical stimuli we learned to recognize as specific sensations. Some of them are: stiffness which is skin indentation and tendons strain in function of space, vibrations which is skin indentation in function of time for frequency above 10/20 hz. These modes resides a bit on the neurophysiology of touch (how mechanoreceptors respond) and a bit on how we learned to recognize touch sensations. The problem reside that the first thing you want to do is manipulate, not simply touch. Manipulation is a bitch because it mostly needs small indentation of the skin which are 1-3 mm of continuous displacement at 1 mm resolution under the fingertip. They piezo they are using displaces 1 mm at the resonance frequency, I imagine 150 hz (I believe?) or something similar, not in continuous (again, I believe). Which means that a contact on the sensor is rendered as a local vibration, which requires a lot of mental gymnastic to think of it as a contact. That is the haptic metaphor. Basically you expect an indentation and you get a vibration, and this sucks and for users. If they got it in static displacement that is cool and might be something noteworthy
_8j50 4y ago
Imagine, in the future, "onlyfans" people and sexworkers might connect a suit you wear with a mannequin with sensors at their location . But more interesring is remotely piloted robots that do manual work like assembly line or warehouse stuff. Remote operators will be able to touch and feel stuff and use ML assisted automation of repetitive tasks. I think that is the future not complete replacement of people.
- thegabriele 4y ago
  I'll wait for neuralink or something of the likes
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Or perhaps sensors in tires that allow a person driving manually to "feel the road" with more fidelity.
PostOnce 4y ago
Everyone is talking about sex work and all I can think of is Zuck gently pushing on one side of your face to try and force you to focus on an ad for at least 1500ms. Welcome to the Metaverse.
- baxtr 4y ago
  Attention is the most important currency in this world - at least since Edward Bernays. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
  - gumboza 4y ago
    As an ADHD sufferer I’m the least valuable person on the planet :)
- lynx23 4y ago
  This would be scary if Facebook were mandatory. The cattle still has to go to the slaughterhouse, voluntarily....
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    Oh, it won't be 'mandatory'. It'll just require 26 hours of effort in a day to not engage or you'll need to put up with substantial weakness on the job and personal relationship (friendship and romantic) markets.
    - lynx23 4y ago
      Luckily, I am old enough to not be bothered by that. Friends who pressure me into using something I dont want to use, are not really friends, and therefore disposable. And dont get me going on the online dating bussiness. I wouldn't want to touch someone who seriously believes looks are the primary factor for choosing a mate. No thanks, I already know some shallow people, no need to find more.
      - 4y ago
ecpottinger 4y ago
NO, No no, I saw this on The Big Bank Theory! Now you will never know who you are kissing. :)
nixpulvis 4y ago
So the person actually petting the dog, for example, will get some muffled interaction, while the person receiving the telehaptic will get some gross approximation. Sounds pretty lame if you ask me. Why not model the touch response of the dog and just stimulate that without the need for the transmitter? The "real-time" aspect of this seems like a gimmick that could be achieved in better ways. EDIT: allowing myself to be open-minded, perhaps if the "tactile rendering" is good enough, you could somehow insulate it from the acquisition and have a fabric with both. This might make for a compelling device. Both you and anyone you share the touch with would feel roughly the same thing? Of course larger forces would be impossible, but you could play a very interesting game of Draw an Object on Your Back.

61 points by WaitWaitWha 4y ago

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago

Teledildonics

tudorw 4y ago
thanks Ted :)
Traubenfuchs 4y ago
A required all-star classic introductory video for the topic about connecting emacs and the emerging field of teledildonics. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wyc3i https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wyc3i
- qdot76367 4y ago
  Awww thanks heh. Really gotta redo that with https://buttplug.io https://buttplug.io someday.
  - Traubenfuchs 4y ago
    Some might be amazed to find the Stripe or Cloudflare CTOs here mopping up the PR disasters their companies "limited customer support" caused but I am amazed I find the creator of one weird video I watched many years ago I could never forget. How old is it actually? dailymotion says 7 years but I feel I watched it at least 15 years ago.

10g1k 4y ago

Taking e-girls to their inevitable destination.

Pigalowda 4y ago
They can easily jerk off 800 guys at the same time without calculating D2F or anything else! https://youtu.be/P-hUV9yhqgY https://youtu.be/P-hUV9yhqgY

EricHaptics 4y ago

Nothing new under the sun. The innovation everyone is waiting in haptics is on the actuator side. The patches are vibrating, but humans perceive static and low frequency forces mostly. This create a haptic metaphor which always sucks. The rest is easy, or easy to figure out. Never heard telehaptics as term in my whole life

JackMcMack 4y ago
I strongly agree, the innovation needed is in haptics on the actuator side. Can you expand on the static and low frequency? My impression was that if you're aiming for fingertips, higher frequency has more resolution. Iirc braille is mostly sensed by the vibration of the ridges of your fingerprint, when moving your finger over the dots. For this reason single character braille displays never really took off, you need an entire row (typically 40 characters) to make a usable refreshable braille display. I've looked at the actuator array in the paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s41528-022-00216-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41528-022-00216-1 It's made with "standard" multilayer pzt actuators, with a displacement of 1000nm at 60V. That's apparently above the sensing threshold, but imho not enough for practical applications. I am curious about the fabrication methods though. The 1mm actuators are in a checkerboard pattern, and apparently reflow soldered. I'm curious how they did that while staying below the curie temperature of the actuators (typically <150°C for PZT), and if that is mechanically sufficient. It's still very impressive work.
- EricHaptics 4y ago
  Sure. Perceptual modes are specific mechanical stimuli we learned to recognize as specific sensations. Some of them are: stiffness which is skin indentation and tendons strain in function of space, vibrations which is skin indentation in function of time for frequency above 10/20 hz. These modes resides a bit on the neurophysiology of touch (how mechanoreceptors respond) and a bit on how we learned to recognize touch sensations. The problem reside that the first thing you want to do is manipulate, not simply touch. Manipulation is a bitch because it mostly needs small indentation of the skin which are 1-3 mm of continuous displacement at 1 mm resolution under the fingertip. They piezo they are using displaces 1 mm at the resonance frequency, I imagine 150 hz (I believe?) or something similar, not in continuous (again, I believe). Which means that a contact on the sensor is rendered as a local vibration, which requires a lot of mental gymnastic to think of it as a contact. That is the haptic metaphor. Basically you expect an indentation and you get a vibration, and this sucks and for users. If they got it in static displacement that is cool and might be something noteworthy

_8j50 4y ago

Imagine, in the future, "onlyfans" people and sexworkers might connect a suit you wear with a mannequin with sensors at their location . But more interesring is remotely piloted robots that do manual work like assembly line or warehouse stuff. Remote operators will be able to touch and feel stuff and use ML assisted automation of repetitive tasks. I think that is the future not complete replacement of people.

thegabriele 4y ago
I'll wait for neuralink or something of the likes
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Or perhaps sensors in tires that allow a person driving manually to "feel the road" with more fidelity.

PostOnce 4y ago

Everyone is talking about sex work and all I can think of is Zuck gently pushing on one side of your face to try and force you to focus on an ad for at least 1500ms. Welcome to the Metaverse.

baxtr 4y ago
Attention is the most important currency in this world - at least since Edward Bernays. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
- gumboza 4y ago
  As an ADHD sufferer I’m the least valuable person on the planet :)
lynx23 4y ago
This would be scary if Facebook were mandatory. The cattle still has to go to the slaughterhouse, voluntarily....
- Mezzie 4y ago
  Oh, it won't be 'mandatory'. It'll just require 26 hours of effort in a day to not engage or you'll need to put up with substantial weakness on the job and personal relationship (friendship and romantic) markets.
  - lynx23 4y ago
    Luckily, I am old enough to not be bothered by that. Friends who pressure me into using something I dont want to use, are not really friends, and therefore disposable. And dont get me going on the online dating bussiness. I wouldn't want to touch someone who seriously believes looks are the primary factor for choosing a mate. No thanks, I already know some shallow people, no need to find more.
    - 4y ago

ecpottinger 4y ago

NO, No no, I saw this on The Big Bank Theory! Now you will never know who you are kissing. :)

nixpulvis 4y ago

So the person actually petting the dog, for example, will get some muffled interaction, while the person receiving the telehaptic will get some gross approximation. Sounds pretty lame if you ask me. Why not model the touch response of the dog and just stimulate that without the need for the transmitter? The "real-time" aspect of this seems like a gimmick that could be achieved in better ways. EDIT: allowing myself to be open-minded, perhaps if the "tactile rendering" is good enough, you could somehow insulate it from the acquisition and have a fabric with both. This might make for a compelling device. Both you and anyone you share the touch with would feel roughly the same thing? Of course larger forces would be impossible, but you could play a very interesting game of Draw an Object on Your Back.