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And now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free m

And now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free movement between markets and encourages competition. Just because someone has decided they like the Apple App Store now, doesn't mean opinions won't change over time, or that the product doesn't change. Therefore being able to easily change your options is good.

slg 4y ago
There seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.
- rtsil 4y ago
  > Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
  - slg 4y ago
    >and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Which would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.
    - ThatPlayer 4y ago
      Then why haven't Meta already removed their apps from the Apple App Store and only released them on the Meta Android Store? Make their apps exclusives to an alternative of iOS altogether. Do you think users would be forced to buy a Meta Phone in that case? Or would they be able to ignore it? Or maybe Meta are forced to release on Apple iPhone because consumers have power. Well that same power can get them to release on the Apple App Store if there were alternatives. That's how supply and demand in the free market works.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  That's a false dichotomy. Apple can offer everything you have now while also giving users the option to sideload. Nowhere is it written that they have to be mutually exclusive.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    Sideloading sounds great to me and you, but it also opens up a great attack vector on less techy people: just convince the user to run an arbitrary binary to pwn the device.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Right. On Android, that's not possible without enabling Developer Mode in settings through a cryptic combo, then enabling the installation of third party packages. After that you still have to go through the process of installing the software. It's not something you can bait Grandma into very easily. It's a useless attack vector when Safari comes preinstalled on every iPhone.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        Oh that's not a problem, there are so many ways to make it seem innocuous. Let's start with the fact that 80% of legit devs will just never notarize if they can instead tell users "go through this flow to use my app, not my fault apple bad". Like on macOS, it becomes routine after 3rd time. And if you believe exploiting evergreen Safari from JS to arbitrary execution is the same as directly running malicious instructions that came in sideloaded app then I have nothing more to say.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        How many casual users are going to be downloading mobile apps from random indie devs who do that? How many casual users are going to be sideloading at all?
        4y ago

slg 4y ago

There seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.

rtsil 4y ago
> Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
- slg 4y ago
  >and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Which would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    Then why haven't Meta already removed their apps from the Apple App Store and only released them on the Meta Android Store? Make their apps exclusives to an alternative of iOS altogether. Do you think users would be forced to buy a Meta Phone in that case? Or would they be able to ignore it? Or maybe Meta are forced to release on Apple iPhone because consumers have power. Well that same power can get them to release on the Apple App Store if there were alternatives. That's how supply and demand in the free market works.
smoldesu 4y ago
That's a false dichotomy. Apple can offer everything you have now while also giving users the option to sideload. Nowhere is it written that they have to be mutually exclusive.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Sideloading sounds great to me and you, but it also opens up a great attack vector on less techy people: just convince the user to run an arbitrary binary to pwn the device.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Right. On Android, that's not possible without enabling Developer Mode in settings through a cryptic combo, then enabling the installation of third party packages. After that you still have to go through the process of installing the software. It's not something you can bait Grandma into very easily. It's a useless attack vector when Safari comes preinstalled on every iPhone.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Oh that's not a problem, there are so many ways to make it seem innocuous. Let's start with the fact that 80% of legit devs will just never notarize if they can instead tell users "go through this flow to use my app, not my fault apple bad". Like on macOS, it becomes routine after 3rd time. And if you believe exploiting evergreen Safari from JS to arbitrary execution is the same as directly running malicious instructions that came in sideloaded app then I have nothing more to say.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        How many casual users are going to be downloading mobile apps from random indie devs who do that? How many casual users are going to be sideloading at all?
        4y ago