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>If you want to stay in the playpen, that's fine, but there's no reason why users who want to use the full potential of their devices shouldn't be able to in or

>If you want to stay in the playpen, that's fine, but there's no reason why users who want to use the full potential of their devices shouldn't be able to in order to keep you happy. This is just flat out not true with networked devices. I want my tech illiterate mother on a platform with no malware. That includes no malware on other devices that can contact hers and trick her into installing the same malware on her device. Apple’s iOS is the only computing platform that she has ever used on which she has avoided being tricked into malware installation. I’m skeptical that that will continue with third party app stores becoming a thing.

Apocryphon 4y ago
Just tell her not to enable developer mode. This is FUD: Apple would clearly have the right to determine the side-loading process as they see fit, and they can put in all sorts of protections to prevent novice users from accessing it easily. Think parental mode type protections. Apple is the master of UX; surely they can figure out a way to keep things secure for users who need it to be?
- n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
  >Just tell her not to enable developer mode She doesn’t know what that is. She won’t remember what I said 5 minutes after I leave. She will blindly follow the instructions of any official-looking website or any scam caller that instructs her to disable these protections in order to “watch a video” (actually sideload an executable). > Apple is the master of UX; surely they can figure out a way to keep things secure for users who need it to be? She got around all of the modern permissions and signing protections on macOS and installed a malicious phony video player that nuked her device and stole her banking credentials. It doesn’t matter what you tell her: she WILL get tricked unless it’s impossible to be tricked.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    That's both unfortunate, and sort of amazing. So she's not technically literate to know if she's being scammed, yet obviously competent enough to follow directions to get hacked.
    - halostatue 4y ago
      That's most people who are given reasonably-written instructions that seem to be written by trustworthy people.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > She will blindly follow the instructions of any official-looking website or any scam caller You probably shouldn't let her use the internet unsupervised, if this is true.
    - halostatue 4y ago
      You’re talking about 80% of people who are on the internet. If not more.
      - educaysean 4y ago
        My guess is that the actual numbers are much lower, like orders of magnitude lower. The U.S. may be dominated by Apple devices, but the rest of the world runs on Windows and Android. 80% of the world population isn't being scammed out of their savings nor are their phones infested with keyloggers and other malware.
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        And if cases are that bad their loved ones would probably install parental controls or an MDM to protect them against themselves.
- tshaddox 4y ago
  > Just tell her not to enable developer mode. If we're just telling people to do things then why not just tell app developers to publish through the App Store.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Most developers will continue to do that even after iOS allows third party app stores, just as most Android apps publish through the Play Store (even if better alternatives such as F-Droid exist).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
smoldesu 4y ago
> I want my tech illiterate mother on a platform with no malware. Well you should probably get her off iOS then, don't want her getting Pegasus by accident.
heavyset_go 4y ago
Multimillion dollar scams flourish on the App Store[1]: > That man’s name is Kosta Eleftheriou, and over the past few months, he’s made a convincing case that Apple is either uninterested or incompetent at stopping multimillion-dollar scams in its own App Store. He’s repeatedly found scam apps that prey on ordinary iPhone and iPad owners by luring them into a “free trial” of an app with seemingly thousands of fake 5-star reviews, only to charge them outrageous sums of money for a recurring subscription that many don’t understand how to cancel. “It’s a situation that most communities are blind to because of how Apple is essentially brainwashing people into believing the App Store is a trusted place,” he tells The Verge. Apple is also responsible for distributing 500 million copies of Xcodeghost to users via the App Store[2]. The App Store model is about profits, and security is an afterthought that makes for good PR. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-scams-fraud-review-enforcement-top-grossing-kosta-eleftheriou https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-... [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is-exposing-details-about-the-biggest-iphone-hack-of-all-time https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is...

Apocryphon 4y ago

Just tell her not to enable developer mode. This is FUD: Apple would clearly have the right to determine the side-loading process as they see fit, and they can put in all sorts of protections to prevent novice users from accessing it easily. Think parental mode type protections. Apple is the master of UX; surely they can figure out a way to keep things secure for users who need it to be?

n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
>Just tell her not to enable developer mode She doesn’t know what that is. She won’t remember what I said 5 minutes after I leave. She will blindly follow the instructions of any official-looking website or any scam caller that instructs her to disable these protections in order to “watch a video” (actually sideload an executable). > Apple is the master of UX; surely they can figure out a way to keep things secure for users who need it to be? She got around all of the modern permissions and signing protections on macOS and installed a malicious phony video player that nuked her device and stole her banking credentials. It doesn’t matter what you tell her: she WILL get tricked unless it’s impossible to be tricked.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  That's both unfortunate, and sort of amazing. So she's not technically literate to know if she's being scammed, yet obviously competent enough to follow directions to get hacked.
  - halostatue 4y ago
    That's most people who are given reasonably-written instructions that seem to be written by trustworthy people.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > She will blindly follow the instructions of any official-looking website or any scam caller You probably shouldn't let her use the internet unsupervised, if this is true.
  - halostatue 4y ago
    You’re talking about 80% of people who are on the internet. If not more.
    - educaysean 4y ago
      My guess is that the actual numbers are much lower, like orders of magnitude lower. The U.S. may be dominated by Apple devices, but the rest of the world runs on Windows and Android. 80% of the world population isn't being scammed out of their savings nor are their phones infested with keyloggers and other malware.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        And if cases are that bad their loved ones would probably install parental controls or an MDM to protect them against themselves.
tshaddox 4y ago
> Just tell her not to enable developer mode. If we're just telling people to do things then why not just tell app developers to publish through the App Store.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Most developers will continue to do that even after iOS allows third party app stores, just as most Android apps publish through the Play Store (even if better alternatives such as F-Droid exist).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

smoldesu 4y ago

> I want my tech illiterate mother on a platform with no malware. Well you should probably get her off iOS then, don't want her getting Pegasus by accident.

heavyset_go 4y ago

Multimillion dollar scams flourish on the App Store[1]: > That man’s name is Kosta Eleftheriou, and over the past few months, he’s made a convincing case that Apple is either uninterested or incompetent at stopping multimillion-dollar scams in its own App Store. He’s repeatedly found scam apps that prey on ordinary iPhone and iPad owners by luring them into a “free trial” of an app with seemingly thousands of fake 5-star reviews, only to charge them outrageous sums of money for a recurring subscription that many don’t understand how to cancel. “It’s a situation that most communities are blind to because of how Apple is essentially brainwashing people into believing the App Store is a trusted place,” he tells The Verge. Apple is also responsible for distributing 500 million copies of Xcodeghost to users via the App Store[2]. The App Store model is about profits, and security is an afterthought that makes for good PR. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-scams-fraud-review-enforcement-top-grossing-kosta-eleftheriou https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/21/22385859/apple-app-store-... [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is-exposing-details-about-the-biggest-iphone-hack-of-all-time https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7bbmz/the-fortnite-trial-is...