4 ms·

>At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. I guess that is the end of our discussion as there is no way to counter t

by slg 4y ago

>At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. I guess that is the end of our discussion as there is no way to counter this type of logic other than saying that if you didn't agree with Apple's walled garden policy, you were free to not use Apple devices.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
satvikpendem 4y ago
Facebook is not a duopoly service that is a significant factor of everyone's lives, controlling the parts not just in their social life but in the professional, financial, and other parts of life. iOS is.
- slg 4y ago
  I think you are underrating the power of Meta. There are 3.84 billion Meta users[1] and 1.65 billion Apple users[2]. [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-platforms-adds-50-million-users-to/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-pl... [2] - https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-total-number-billion-apple-tim-cook-q1-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-tot...
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Then it could be argued that if Meta forcibly takes away their apps away from the App Store (or from the Play Store for that matter) then either: 1. Regulators would make a beeline to inspect such a third party app store/the sideloadable binaries they present for irregularities, illicit tracking, data violations, etc. 2. Slap them with anti-competitive monopolistic behavior by engaging in the highly disruptive act of depriving the main App/Play Store users of their apps. Thus, they would be forced by regulator action to host their apps on both their stores and official stores. Regulators aren't too keen on Meta these days, they're not too keen on Big Tech in general, this isn't a vendetta against Apple.
- elondaits 4y ago
  WhatsApp is 100% needed in countries like mine (Argentina). COVID-19 vaccine appointments came via WhatsApp in Buenos Aires, most people require it for professional reasons, school parent groups and similar happen in WhatsApp, social life requires WhatsApp. Now iOS or Android are interchangeable… nothing demands having one or the other.
  - mariusor 4y ago
    > nothing demands having one or the other That's equally bad though. What happens to people that don't use either?
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      It's safe to assume that, even in developing nations, everyone has a cheap beat-down Android or iPhone. Having a smartphone has become as ubiquitous as having electricity or running water now that nobody questions living without one. It's pretty much a must have. That's why the Apple/Google platform are starting to attract regulators, which is only a good thing.
      - mariusor 4y ago
        No I don't think that's safe to assume.
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        The reality kind of contradicts you. Sure, there are people living without smartphones, the same way how there are people living without electricity or running water. The thing is, in the developing world, smartphones and the various apps have really improved people's lives, mostly by getting ahead in speed and innovation of what the governments, public services and local companies could offer the traditional way. So it's not like everyone is forced to get a smartphone, but everyone got a smartphone because it now allowed everyone to communicate better, organize better, and sell their services/goods easier.
- qualudeheart 4y ago
  Apple's not a monopoly of the cell phone market. Facebook is a monopoly of the social media market. If you you or your business boycot facebook you will probably fail.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    > Facebook is a monopoly of the social media market. If you you or your business boycot facebook you will probably fail. As someone who works with many business, I can tell you that this is false. There are many more ways to market services than via Facebook and other related Meta properties.
    - qualudeheart 4y ago
      Then why is Facebook known to have vastly superior ad targeting than Goog and friends?
      - satvikpendem 4y ago
        Ads are not the only way to market. In fact for most businesses I know, it is not even on their list of marketing strategies.
        ranguna 4y ago
        Given that you didn't go into details about this "list", there's not a lot of weight in your argument. Be it for privacy reasons or not, if your don't share at least some high level information about these alternative marketing strategies you are talking about, I can't really believe you. Are your businesses local, allowing you to just use physical flyers or something?
        satvikpendem 4y ago
        Local: - Google Maps optimization, asking or discounting for ratings - Rewards and affiliate programs - Physical flyers sometimes, yes - Free samples at various stores if food related Startups: - SEO - Content marketing - Affiliate programs - Cold emailing, DMing on other platforms - Sponsorships with creators like on YouTube - Gamification - And of course, word of mouth and simply having a good product Unless you're big or have lots of VC, ads usually don't work. The companies I've worked with, we tried many different ad models which cost a lot of money but ultimately didn't bring in the traffic commensutate to the cost.
ThatPlayer 4y ago
And now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free movement between markets and encourages competition. Just because someone has decided they like the Apple App Store now, doesn't mean opinions won't change over time, or that the product doesn't change. Therefore being able to easily change your options is good.
- slg 4y ago
  There seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.
  - rtsil 4y ago
    > Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
    - slg 4y ago
      >and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        Which would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.
heavyset_go 4y ago
There's a big difference between not using one out of fifty competing social media apps and not using the products from an illegal duopoly. The first is freedom of choice, the second is a lack of choice enabled by illegal business practices that prevent competition through violation of antitrust laws. So you are literally free to choose to use Facebook or not, but if you want to participate in society, use banks, get a job, etc, you are not free to escape the Apple and Google duopoly, because their illegal anticompetitive actions have artificially limited consumer choice.

by slg 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

satvikpendem 4y ago

Facebook is not a duopoly service that is a significant factor of everyone's lives, controlling the parts not just in their social life but in the professional, financial, and other parts of life. iOS is.

slg 4y ago
I think you are underrating the power of Meta. There are 3.84 billion Meta users[1] and 1.65 billion Apple users[2]. [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-platforms-adds-50-million-users-to/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-pl... [2] - https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-total-number-billion-apple-tim-cook-q1-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-tot...
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Then it could be argued that if Meta forcibly takes away their apps away from the App Store (or from the Play Store for that matter) then either: 1. Regulators would make a beeline to inspect such a third party app store/the sideloadable binaries they present for irregularities, illicit tracking, data violations, etc. 2. Slap them with anti-competitive monopolistic behavior by engaging in the highly disruptive act of depriving the main App/Play Store users of their apps. Thus, they would be forced by regulator action to host their apps on both their stores and official stores. Regulators aren't too keen on Meta these days, they're not too keen on Big Tech in general, this isn't a vendetta against Apple.
elondaits 4y ago
WhatsApp is 100% needed in countries like mine (Argentina). COVID-19 vaccine appointments came via WhatsApp in Buenos Aires, most people require it for professional reasons, school parent groups and similar happen in WhatsApp, social life requires WhatsApp. Now iOS or Android are interchangeable… nothing demands having one or the other.
- mariusor 4y ago
  > nothing demands having one or the other That's equally bad though. What happens to people that don't use either?
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    It's safe to assume that, even in developing nations, everyone has a cheap beat-down Android or iPhone. Having a smartphone has become as ubiquitous as having electricity or running water now that nobody questions living without one. It's pretty much a must have. That's why the Apple/Google platform are starting to attract regulators, which is only a good thing.
    - mariusor 4y ago
      No I don't think that's safe to assume.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        The reality kind of contradicts you. Sure, there are people living without smartphones, the same way how there are people living without electricity or running water. The thing is, in the developing world, smartphones and the various apps have really improved people's lives, mostly by getting ahead in speed and innovation of what the governments, public services and local companies could offer the traditional way. So it's not like everyone is forced to get a smartphone, but everyone got a smartphone because it now allowed everyone to communicate better, organize better, and sell their services/goods easier.
qualudeheart 4y ago
Apple's not a monopoly of the cell phone market. Facebook is a monopoly of the social media market. If you you or your business boycot facebook you will probably fail.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  > Facebook is a monopoly of the social media market. If you you or your business boycot facebook you will probably fail. As someone who works with many business, I can tell you that this is false. There are many more ways to market services than via Facebook and other related Meta properties.
  - qualudeheart 4y ago
    Then why is Facebook known to have vastly superior ad targeting than Goog and friends?
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      Ads are not the only way to market. In fact for most businesses I know, it is not even on their list of marketing strategies.
      - ranguna 4y ago
        Given that you didn't go into details about this "list", there's not a lot of weight in your argument. Be it for privacy reasons or not, if your don't share at least some high level information about these alternative marketing strategies you are talking about, I can't really believe you. Are your businesses local, allowing you to just use physical flyers or something?
        satvikpendem 4y ago
        Local: - Google Maps optimization, asking or discounting for ratings - Rewards and affiliate programs - Physical flyers sometimes, yes - Free samples at various stores if food related Startups: - SEO - Content marketing - Affiliate programs - Cold emailing, DMing on other platforms - Sponsorships with creators like on YouTube - Gamification - And of course, word of mouth and simply having a good product Unless you're big or have lots of VC, ads usually don't work. The companies I've worked with, we tried many different ad models which cost a lot of money but ultimately didn't bring in the traffic commensutate to the cost.

ThatPlayer 4y ago

And now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free movement between markets and encourages competition. Just because someone has decided they like the Apple App Store now, doesn't mean opinions won't change over time, or that the product doesn't change. Therefore being able to easily change your options is good.

slg 4y ago
There seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.
- rtsil 4y ago
  > Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
  - slg 4y ago
    >and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Which would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.

heavyset_go 4y ago

There's a big difference between not using one out of fifty competing social media apps and not using the products from an illegal duopoly. The first is freedom of choice, the second is a lack of choice enabled by illegal business practices that prevent competition through violation of antitrust laws. So you are literally free to choose to use Facebook or not, but if you want to participate in society, use banks, get a job, etc, you are not free to escape the Apple and Google duopoly, because their illegal anticompetitive actions have artificially limited consumer choice.