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And yet Facebook hasn't done this, and Epic hasn't done any of the scary things you're spooking yourself over in your OP. The fact that an app is distributed ou
by heavyset_go 4y ago
And yet Facebook hasn't done this, and Epic hasn't done any of the scary things you're spooking yourself over in your OP. The fact that an app is distributed outside of the app store isn't proof that the sky is falling like you're saying will happen.
At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. There's no reason other users should be restricted because you think that the spectre of Facebook might lurk in the shadows.
- slg 4y ago>At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. I guess that is the end of our discussion as there is no way to counter this type of logic other than saying that if you didn't agree with Apple's walled garden policy, you were free to not use Apple devices.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- satvikpendem 4y agoFacebook is not a duopoly service that is a significant factor of everyone's lives, controlling the parts not just in their social life but in the professional, financial, and other parts of life. iOS is.
- slg 4y agoI think you are underrating the power of Meta. There are 3.84 billion Meta users[1] and 1.65 billion Apple users[2]. [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-platforms-adds-50-million-users-to/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-pl... [2] - https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-total-number-billion-apple-tim-cook-q1-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-tot...
- Apocryphon 4y agoThen it could be argued that if Meta forcibly takes away their apps away from the App Store (or from the Play Store for that matter) then either: 1. Regulators would make a beeline to inspect such a third party app store/the sideloadable binaries they present for irregularities, illicit tracking, data violations, etc. 2. Slap them with anti-competitive monopolistic behavior by engaging in the highly disruptive act of depriving the main App/Play Store users of their apps. Thus, they would be forced by regulator action to host their apps on both their stores and official stores. Regulators aren't too keen on Meta these days, they're not too keen on Big Tech in general, this isn't a vendetta against Apple.
- elondaits 4y agoWhatsApp is 100% needed in countries like mine (Argentina). COVID-19 vaccine appointments came via WhatsApp in Buenos Aires, most people require it for professional reasons, school parent groups and similar happen in WhatsApp, social life requires WhatsApp. Now iOS or Android are interchangeable… nothing demands having one or the other.
- mariusor 4y ago> nothing demands having one or the other That's equally bad though. What happens to people that don't use either?
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoIt's safe to assume that, even in developing nations, everyone has a cheap beat-down Android or iPhone. Having a smartphone has become as ubiquitous as having electricity or running water now that nobody questions living without one. It's pretty much a must have. That's why the Apple/Google platform are starting to attract regulators, which is only a good thing.
- mariusor 4y agoNo I don't think that's safe to assume.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoThe reality kind of contradicts you. Sure, there are people living without smartphones, the same way how there are people living without electricity or running water. The thing is, in the developing world, smartphones and the various apps have really improved people's lives, mostly by getting ahead in speed and innovation of what the governments, public services and local companies could offer the traditional way. So it's not like everyone is forced to get a smartphone, but everyone got a smartphone because it now allowed everyone to communicate better, organize better, and sell their services/goods easier.
- qualudeheart 4y agoApple's not a monopoly of the cell phone market. Facebook is a monopoly of the social media market. If you you or your business boycot facebook you will probably fail.
- satvikpendem 4y ago> Facebook is a monopoly of the social media market. If you you or your business boycot facebook you will probably fail. As someone who works with many business, I can tell you that this is false. There are many more ways to market services than via Facebook and other related Meta properties.
- qualudeheart 4y agoThen why is Facebook known to have vastly superior ad targeting than Goog and friends?
- satvikpendem 4y agoAds are not the only way to market. In fact for most businesses I know, it is not even on their list of marketing strategies.
- ranguna 4y agoGiven that you didn't go into details about this "list", there's not a lot of weight in your argument. Be it for privacy reasons or not, if your don't share at least some high level information about these alternative marketing strategies you are talking about, I can't really believe you. Are your businesses local, allowing you to just use physical flyers or something?
- satvikpendem 4y agoLocal: - Google Maps optimization, asking or discounting for ratings - Rewards and affiliate programs - Physical flyers sometimes, yes - Free samples at various stores if food related Startups: - SEO - Content marketing - Affiliate programs - Cold emailing, DMing on other platforms - Sponsorships with creators like on YouTube - Gamification - And of course, word of mouth and simply having a good product Unless you're big or have lots of VC, ads usually don't work. The companies I've worked with, we tried many different ad models which cost a lot of money but ultimately didn't bring in the traffic commensutate to the cost.
- ThatPlayer 4y agoAnd now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free movement between markets and encourages competition. Just because someone has decided they like the Apple App Store now, doesn't mean opinions won't change over time, or that the product doesn't change. Therefore being able to easily change your options is good.
- slg 4y agoThere seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.
- rtsil 4y ago> Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
- slg 4y ago>and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Apocryphon 4y agoWhich would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.
- heavyset_go 4y agoThere's a big difference between not using one out of fifty competing social media apps and not using the products from an illegal duopoly. The first is freedom of choice, the second is a lack of choice enabled by illegal business practices that prevent competition through violation of antitrust laws. So you are literally free to choose to use Facebook or not, but if you want to participate in society, use banks, get a job, etc, you are not free to escape the Apple and Google duopoly, because their illegal anticompetitive actions have artificially limited consumer choice.
- miohtama 4y agoIt's because Facebook does not take user payments. However I still agree it's a dying boogeyman.
- BoorishBears 4y agoThe first time Epic tried to push Fortnite on Android they accidentally introduced a backdoor to every single device that installed their homebrew updater. And we're not talking advanced memory safety exploit, breakout the ROPs "backdoor". They requested permission to install apps, then went on to silently install any apk that was put in a path with 0 verification. It's the kind of lazy mistake that puts on full display the fact that at the end of the day, Epic doesn't care about anything as bold as freedom. They were so giddy to get around the Play Store cut that they couldn't put 5 seconds into thinking about anything besides "how quickly can we roll this thing out to people and get our cash cow back on track?"
- heavyset_go 4y agoApple regularly ships backdoors and RCEs in their software. Safari is routinely exploited, and exploits in Safari put every iOS user at risk, because Apple prevents other browser engines from running on iOS. Even Firefox and Chrome on iOS are just reskinned Safari. If users had the option of using a browser with better security and features, an exploit in Safari wouldn't be as big of a threat. Here's a fun figure: exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are more common than those for Android. Consumers should have the choice of running whatever software they want on the devices they own, in part because that gives them the option to use more secure apps than the ones Apple forces all iOS users to use.
- BoorishBears 4y agoThe idea that whataboutism is the only hallmark of a poorly conceived argument you need to look for picks up another case. If we remove the part where you try and brush of Epic's negligence because "oh yeah?! Apple makes mistakes too!!!" and try to imply that Chrome isn't a massively more lucrative target than Safari... this is just fearmongering about security. Alternative app stores on Android are either F Droid, or crap. And the crap ones vastly outnumber F Droid, and mostly push malware laced versions of the play store, like Aptoide. The ones that don't are bloatware like Samsung's half-baked attempt at an app store, or the Amazon App Store serving up outdated packages so you can enjoy last year's vulnerabilities today. > Here's a fun figure: exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are more common than those for Android. For 12 of the 15 years they've both existed iOS exploits were more expensive, and unlike now the margin was entire orders of magnitude. I've lead shipped Android products from datasheets. Would not bring up Android in any conversation about security: you don't need fresh backdoors with the culture SoC manufacturers have driven. A quarter of the platform is on versions that stopped getting security updates years ago. That's why I'm perfectly happy with Android being the OS for psuedo-Stallmanists who say things like "Consumers should have the choice of running whatever software they want on the devices they own". It's disappointing that Apple is going to let something that's proven itself to overwhelmingly be used for garbage onto the platform because non-technical people are getting lobbied by companies with an agenda under the guise of "freedom". Let Android be the containment zone for that stuff.
- kolinko 4y agoWhat? With Epic you cannot just install the game on mac os. You need to install their Epic „store” that will try to run itself each time you start a computer and so on. Exactly the thing that people don’t want on iPhone.
- Dah00n 4y agoWhich you cannot do on an iPhone. You don't boot it like a PC and apps don't launch when you do restart it. It is another what-if that cannot happen, derailing the discussion.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago> you are free not to use it. No, you are not because facebook is Big. So for instance restaurants, announcements, some news etc will only be on facebook. So this reads like "just don't use any electricity"... technically 'possible' but a completely useless argument.
- ranguna 4y agoThey are big, but not that big... I haven't used any meta product for a couple years now and I'm only missing the seldom update from a couple of companies. Tbh, I don't miss it that much. However, I can understand some people are "hooked" on it and have stopped looking for alternatives.
- Dah00n 4y agoIt is trying to derail the conversation comparing Facebook to electricity. You are trying to shoehorn everyone into your chosen way of life as many people don't use Facebook and many avoid all social media like the plague. I don't have Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat, etc. and I have no use for it at all. If a restaurant only want customers from Facebook then just don't eat there. It is not like you'll starve if you don't. To me it is no bigger a decision to not use Facebook than what brand of toilet-paper to buy - which shows how biased you are.
- bombolo 4y ago> then just don't eat there But all my local events are on it. So yes I can delete my account… but that amounts to becoming a social outcast.
- heavyset_go 4y agoLog into facebook.com if you're adamant about using Facebook despite being afraid of it.