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Couldn't Meta follow the same path as Epic? Doesn't that have potential to create a situation that is worse off for consumers because their device theoreticall

by slg 4y ago

Couldn't Meta follow the same path as Epic? Doesn't that have potential to create a situation that is worse off for consumers because their device theoretically would be less protected in terms of both security and privacy?

Apocryphon 4y ago
They could, but I argue that Meta requiring users to use a third party app store would likely be self-defeating for them. It could conceivably alienate a lot of users who don't want to deal with managing yet another account, let alone subject themselves to an environment run by Meta. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30808926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30808926
- judge2020 4y ago
  > let alone subject themselves to an environment run by Meta. Why would EU Lawmakers be satisfies with some crazy process that requires rebooting the device or going through 10+ steps to enable sideloading? These EU laws will likely require low-friction alternate app stores, which means actually installing Facebook via an alternate method might mean something as low-friction as meta.com/store -> "trust Meta store" -> open and install Facebook.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    1. I don't think EU lawmakers would be opposed to sensible user flows from Apple that properly disclose the risks and provide disclaimers about the potential dangers of side loading. 2. The current Settings menu in iOS is already a jumbled mess as it is, thanks to years of layers upon layers of options added into it. Even simply getting into developer mode would cause some friction. 3. Even on Android, it's somewhat out of the way: https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-enable-developer-mode-on-android-4684044 https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-enable-developer-mode-on-and... 4. I'm talking about the existence of alternate app stores themselves adding friction. Meta forcing users to use their store would be adding an additional wrinkle as it is. Think about the current streaming space. Many many users are already forced to deal with multiple services and managing their accounts just to get into content. And now they're going to be doing it on their iPhones? It's quite likely that a substantial amount would just forego dealing with a Meta app store and just start using the the mobile website - or just abandon Facebook on their phones altogether, which is even worse than Meta. 5. A point I mention in the link but not above: EU lawmakers, who are already suspicious of Meta, will likely scrutinize any third party app stores launched by them or other big tech companies anyway. So it's not as if it would be unpoliced for privacy violations and the like. If anything, such app stores would be a treasure trove for regulators to inspect.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      So we have a technological solution to cross-app tracking, and we'd downgrade to a regulatory process that hopefully fines companies enough to actually cause a difference. Oh, and you'd better hope those companies are actually located withing the EU or US, because if you PII gets siphoned to China you won't get any remediation whatsoever (at least for as long as they remain the world's manufacturing capital).
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        > we'd downgrade to a regulatory process that hopefully fines companies enough to actually cause a difference It is not a downgrade, because for those who live in democracies, such regulations are decided by we, the people, and thus we should ultimately place our faith in the democratic system, not in any private corporation, no matter how benevolent-seeming. > because if you PII gets siphoned to China you won't get any remediation whatsoever Evidence that this isn't already happening anyway? Whither current iOS users in China? > at least for as long as they remain the world's manufacturing capital Don't worry, Apple is hard at work shifting their supply chain to India and Vietnam. Right? Right?
        judge2020 4y ago
        > Evidence that this isn't already happening anyway? Whither current iOS users in China? I'm taking about a situation where a government, say a fictional United States, implements privacy regulations. For any legitimate company, they must follow these to operate in the United States. In this scenario, the Government has no way to protect vulnerable citizens who search "free clash of clans gems ios", download a third-party app store provided by some data company in China, and have their PII beamed to servers in China (bonus points if it uses a zero-day to do something like purchase a bunch of product from Amazon or otherwise use the person's phone as a zombie in a botnet or money-laundering scheme). This is currently impossible on iOS without the data firm having something like a hacked Apple Enterprise account it's using to distribute software outside of the App Store, where it's checked to ensure IDFA compliance and levels of static/dynamic behavior analysis & preventing JIT code compilation or most things that could run unaudited code.

by slg 4y ago

Apocryphon 4y ago

They could, but I argue that Meta requiring users to use a third party app store would likely be self-defeating for them. It could conceivably alienate a lot of users who don't want to deal with managing yet another account, let alone subject themselves to an environment run by Meta. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30808926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30808926

judge2020 4y ago
> let alone subject themselves to an environment run by Meta. Why would EU Lawmakers be satisfies with some crazy process that requires rebooting the device or going through 10+ steps to enable sideloading? These EU laws will likely require low-friction alternate app stores, which means actually installing Facebook via an alternate method might mean something as low-friction as meta.com/store -> "trust Meta store" -> open and install Facebook.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  1. I don't think EU lawmakers would be opposed to sensible user flows from Apple that properly disclose the risks and provide disclaimers about the potential dangers of side loading. 2. The current Settings menu in iOS is already a jumbled mess as it is, thanks to years of layers upon layers of options added into it. Even simply getting into developer mode would cause some friction. 3. Even on Android, it's somewhat out of the way: https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-enable-developer-mode-on-android-4684044 https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-enable-developer-mode-on-and... 4. I'm talking about the existence of alternate app stores themselves adding friction. Meta forcing users to use their store would be adding an additional wrinkle as it is. Think about the current streaming space. Many many users are already forced to deal with multiple services and managing their accounts just to get into content. And now they're going to be doing it on their iPhones? It's quite likely that a substantial amount would just forego dealing with a Meta app store and just start using the the mobile website - or just abandon Facebook on their phones altogether, which is even worse than Meta. 5. A point I mention in the link but not above: EU lawmakers, who are already suspicious of Meta, will likely scrutinize any third party app stores launched by them or other big tech companies anyway. So it's not as if it would be unpoliced for privacy violations and the like. If anything, such app stores would be a treasure trove for regulators to inspect.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    So we have a technological solution to cross-app tracking, and we'd downgrade to a regulatory process that hopefully fines companies enough to actually cause a difference. Oh, and you'd better hope those companies are actually located withing the EU or US, because if you PII gets siphoned to China you won't get any remediation whatsoever (at least for as long as they remain the world's manufacturing capital).
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      > we'd downgrade to a regulatory process that hopefully fines companies enough to actually cause a difference It is not a downgrade, because for those who live in democracies, such regulations are decided by we, the people, and thus we should ultimately place our faith in the democratic system, not in any private corporation, no matter how benevolent-seeming. > because if you PII gets siphoned to China you won't get any remediation whatsoever Evidence that this isn't already happening anyway? Whither current iOS users in China? > at least for as long as they remain the world's manufacturing capital Don't worry, Apple is hard at work shifting their supply chain to India and Vietnam. Right? Right?
      - judge2020 4y ago
        > Evidence that this isn't already happening anyway? Whither current iOS users in China? I'm taking about a situation where a government, say a fictional United States, implements privacy regulations. For any legitimate company, they must follow these to operate in the United States. In this scenario, the Government has no way to protect vulnerable citizens who search "free clash of clans gems ios", download a third-party app store provided by some data company in China, and have their PII beamed to servers in China (bonus points if it uses a zero-day to do something like purchase a bunch of product from Amazon or otherwise use the person's phone as a zombie in a botnet or money-laundering scheme). This is currently impossible on iOS without the data firm having something like a hacked Apple Enterprise account it's using to distribute software outside of the App Store, where it's checked to ensure IDFA compliance and levels of static/dynamic behavior analysis & preventing JIT code compilation or most things that could run unaudited code.