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>This didn't happen on Android, macOS, or Windows, despite all of them allowing alternative app stores. I'm guessing you aren't a gamer. This absolutely happe

by slg 4y ago

>This didn't happen on Android, macOS, or Windows, despite all of them allowing alternative app stores. I'm guessing you aren't a gamer. This absolutely happened on Android and PC. Fortnight is the most obvious example on Android and the various PC game stores are constantly battling over exclusives which has led to bizarre and annoying situations like this[1] [1] - https://wccftech.com/goat-simulator-3-devs-tell-players-to-use-steam-as-a-response-to-lack-of-native-controller-support/ https://wccftech.com/goat-simulator-3-devs-tell-players-to-u...

heavyset_go 4y ago
And yet Facebook hasn't done this, and Epic hasn't done any of the scary things you're spooking yourself over in your OP. The fact that an app is distributed outside of the app store isn't proof that the sky is falling like you're saying will happen. At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. There's no reason other users should be restricted because you think that the spectre of Facebook might lurk in the shadows.
- slg 4y ago
  >At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. I guess that is the end of our discussion as there is no way to counter this type of logic other than saying that if you didn't agree with Apple's walled garden policy, you were free to not use Apple devices.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    Facebook is not a duopoly service that is a significant factor of everyone's lives, controlling the parts not just in their social life but in the professional, financial, and other parts of life. iOS is.
    - slg 4y ago
      I think you are underrating the power of Meta. There are 3.84 billion Meta users[1] and 1.65 billion Apple users[2]. [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-platforms-adds-50-million-users-to/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-pl... [2] - https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-total-number-billion-apple-tim-cook-q1-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-tot...
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        Then it could be argued that if Meta forcibly takes away their apps away from the App Store (or from the Play Store for that matter) then either: 1. Regulators would make a beeline to inspect such a third party app store/the sideloadable binaries they present for irregularities, illicit tracking, data violations, etc. 2. Slap them with anti-competitive monopolistic behavior by engaging in the highly disruptive act of depriving the main App/Play Store users of their apps. Thus, they would be forced by regulator action to host their apps on both their stores and official stores. Regulators aren't too keen on Meta these days, they're not too keen on Big Tech in general, this isn't a vendetta against Apple.
    - elondaits 4y ago
      WhatsApp is 100% needed in countries like mine (Argentina). COVID-19 vaccine appointments came via WhatsApp in Buenos Aires, most people require it for professional reasons, school parent groups and similar happen in WhatsApp, social life requires WhatsApp. Now iOS or Android are interchangeable… nothing demands having one or the other.
      - mariusor 4y ago
        > nothing demands having one or the other That's equally bad though. What happens to people that don't use either?
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        It's safe to assume that, even in developing nations, everyone has a cheap beat-down Android or iPhone. Having a smartphone has become as ubiquitous as having electricity or running water now that nobody questions living without one. It's pretty much a must have. That's why the Apple/Google platform are starting to attract regulators, which is only a good thing.
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    And now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free movement between markets and encourages competition. Just because someone has decided they like the Apple App Store now, doesn't mean opinions won't change over time, or that the product doesn't change. Therefore being able to easily change your options is good.
    - slg 4y ago
      There seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.
      - rtsil 4y ago
        > Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
        slg 4y ago
        >and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        Which would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    There's a big difference between not using one out of fifty competing social media apps and not using the products from an illegal duopoly. The first is freedom of choice, the second is a lack of choice enabled by illegal business practices that prevent competition through violation of antitrust laws. So you are literally free to choose to use Facebook or not, but if you want to participate in society, use banks, get a job, etc, you are not free to escape the Apple and Google duopoly, because their illegal anticompetitive actions have artificially limited consumer choice.
- miohtama 4y ago
  It's because Facebook does not take user payments. However I still agree it's a dying boogeyman.
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  The first time Epic tried to push Fortnite on Android they accidentally introduced a backdoor to every single device that installed their homebrew updater. And we're not talking advanced memory safety exploit, breakout the ROPs "backdoor". They requested permission to install apps, then went on to silently install any apk that was put in a path with 0 verification. It's the kind of lazy mistake that puts on full display the fact that at the end of the day, Epic doesn't care about anything as bold as freedom. They were so giddy to get around the Play Store cut that they couldn't put 5 seconds into thinking about anything besides "how quickly can we roll this thing out to people and get our cash cow back on track?"
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Apple regularly ships backdoors and RCEs in their software. Safari is routinely exploited, and exploits in Safari put every iOS user at risk, because Apple prevents other browser engines from running on iOS. Even Firefox and Chrome on iOS are just reskinned Safari. If users had the option of using a browser with better security and features, an exploit in Safari wouldn't be as big of a threat. Here's a fun figure: exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are more common than those for Android. Consumers should have the choice of running whatever software they want on the devices they own, in part because that gives them the option to use more secure apps than the ones Apple forces all iOS users to use.
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      The idea that whataboutism is the only hallmark of a poorly conceived argument you need to look for picks up another case. If we remove the part where you try and brush of Epic's negligence because "oh yeah?! Apple makes mistakes too!!!" and try to imply that Chrome isn't a massively more lucrative target than Safari... this is just fearmongering about security. Alternative app stores on Android are either F Droid, or crap. And the crap ones vastly outnumber F Droid, and mostly push malware laced versions of the play store, like Aptoide. The ones that don't are bloatware like Samsung's half-baked attempt at an app store, or the Amazon App Store serving up outdated packages so you can enjoy last year's vulnerabilities today. > Here's a fun figure: exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are more common than those for Android. For 12 of the 15 years they've both existed iOS exploits were more expensive, and unlike now the margin was entire orders of magnitude. I've lead shipped Android products from datasheets. Would not bring up Android in any conversation about security: you don't need fresh backdoors with the culture SoC manufacturers have driven. A quarter of the platform is on versions that stopped getting security updates years ago. That's why I'm perfectly happy with Android being the OS for psuedo-Stallmanists who say things like "Consumers should have the choice of running whatever software they want on the devices they own". It's disappointing that Apple is going to let something that's proven itself to overwhelmingly be used for garbage onto the platform because non-technical people are getting lobbied by companies with an agenda under the guise of "freedom". Let Android be the containment zone for that stuff.
- kolinko 4y ago
  What? With Epic you cannot just install the game on mac os. You need to install their Epic „store” that will try to run itself each time you start a computer and so on. Exactly the thing that people don’t want on iPhone.
  - Dah00n 4y ago
    Which you cannot do on an iPhone. You don't boot it like a PC and apps don't launch when you do restart it. It is another what-if that cannot happen, derailing the discussion.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  > you are free not to use it. No, you are not because facebook is Big. So for instance restaurants, announcements, some news etc will only be on facebook. So this reads like "just don't use any electricity"... technically 'possible' but a completely useless argument.
  - ranguna 4y ago
    They are big, but not that big... I haven't used any meta product for a couple years now and I'm only missing the seldom update from a couple of companies. Tbh, I don't miss it that much. However, I can understand some people are "hooked" on it and have stopped looking for alternatives.
  - Dah00n 4y ago
    It is trying to derail the conversation comparing Facebook to electricity. You are trying to shoehorn everyone into your chosen way of life as many people don't use Facebook and many avoid all social media like the plague. I don't have Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat, etc. and I have no use for it at all. If a restaurant only want customers from Facebook then just don't eat there. It is not like you'll starve if you don't. To me it is no bigger a decision to not use Facebook than what brand of toilet-paper to buy - which shows how biased you are.
    - bombolo 4y ago
      > then just don't eat there But all my local events are on it. So yes I can delete my account… but that amounts to becoming a social outcast.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Log into facebook.com if you're adamant about using Facebook despite being afraid of it.
Apocryphon 4y ago
You're not wrong, but games are probably a unique space where that's the sort of thing that already regularly happens on PCs as well, witness the proliferation in publisher stores over the last few years. AAA studios are simply used to forcing that sort of extractive behavior from users, and users are all too willing to comply. But I don't think there's that much threat for the gaming + mobile market, in the sense that Fortnite aside, I'm pretty sure EA/UbiSoft/Activision Blizzard/etc. don't really have "killer apps" for iOS that would entice a lot of users to use their third party app stores. For all other types of mobile games, Apple Arcade is hard to beat. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012 Though perhaps there is a concern if Chinese gacha game makers start making their own stores.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  > AAA studios are simply used to forcing that sort of extractive behavior from users, and users are all too willing to comply. How so? Steam is still alive and well, while publisher-exclusive stores are slowly disappearing. Sure, Epic Store still exists and has solid market share, but it's arguably more than just a publisher store.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    I might be out of date now but aren't there EA Origin, Ubisoft store, Battle.net, and the Microsoft Store, at least? Those publishers carry a good chunk of titles between them. Is the pendulum swinging back against proliferation of game publisher stores? What I just mean is a few years ago this trend started happening, Epic was but one of them trying to break into the prior Steam/GoG landscape.
    - qualudeheart 4y ago
      Those stores are all inferior to Steam. I don't believe the other stores aren’t worse than Steam. They all have a pretty crappy game selection.
      - 4y ago
kobalsky 4y ago
Competition between marketplaces is good. Epic is offering free games and discounts to lure players in all the time. this is excellent for consumers. The problem with goat simulator is 100% on the developer and not some dark pattern imposed by steam. If you have an xbox or ps controller it will work out of the box without steam (provided you have installed the drivers). Steam has a gamepad emulation layer and that's why the dev recommended using it as a launcher for the non-steam game, because any controller will work with it. > I'm guessing you aren't a gamer. > Fortnight Seriously? it's Fortnite
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Competition for competition’s sake isn’t always good. Netflix is by any standard I can think of a worse product than it used to be. It’s doubtful that the free games thing is sustainable long term; Epic is burning a ton of money to try and establish a toehold.
  - kobalsky 4y ago
    Steam is a special case because they set the bar incredibly high while having a monopoly on PC for almost two decades. However, you can't rest easy with a monopoly, even with a BDFL. At some point, Gabe will step down, and Steam will either go sideways or get sold to Microsoft or Google, ending the love story. That's why I buy some games on Epic, to keep Steam on their toes, even though they are still the best option out there. I tell everyone I know to do the same.
    - emodendroket 4y ago
      Well, for my part I’m not going to do that because it’s an inferior product I don’t like using.
  - govg 4y ago
    To be honest, streaming is fraught with content restrictions and copyrights. If it was similar to the PC gaming case, then we would be able to watch any show on any platform, minus a few exclusives. That would actually lead to innovation and is good for the end consumer. This is decidedly not the case any more after all the major content owners came out with their own streaming service, and locked others out.
arrosenberg 4y ago
The solution is for Congress to require FRAND (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) licensing on all digital media. Exclusive distribution is anticompetitive. Producers should be required to set a price and terms and any marketplace can carry the item if they pay the price and meet the terms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_and_non-discriminatory_licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_and_non-discriminat...
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I can get behind this.
- kolinko 4y ago
  Woah, that is brilliant
- ranguna 4y ago
  The way I read that article, people can just refuse to give out licenses.
  - arrosenberg 4y ago
    Its a binary choice for content producers. If you sell to one distributor, you have to sell to everyone on the same terms
smsm42 4y ago
Well, that does it. Some people can't play Goat Simulator 3. That definitely proves the whole model of having independent stores in un-viable. I mean, who needs those fancy picture boxes is you can't even play a goat simulator on it without "using steam"? It's just not worth it anymore.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
Not really. There are a few examples, but ubisoft is coming back to steam, gog and humble bundle offer steam keys etc.. It is mostly just EA being EA. And in any case a little inconvenience is a small price to prevent monopolies.
sensanaty 4y ago
>I'm guessing you aren't a gamer. Followed by calling the game "Fortnight" gave me a bit of a chuckle. Most people I know just don't buy anything that isn't on Steam. People only use the Epic store cause they give out free games all the time in a sad attempt to get people to use it more, but most people don't care and would rather stay with Steam (while occasionally redeeming some free games on Epic). As for something like GoG, they give you DRM-free portable installers, so obviously some people like that and occasionally use it instead of Steam.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by slg 4y ago

heavyset_go 4y ago

And yet Facebook hasn't done this, and Epic hasn't done any of the scary things you're spooking yourself over in your OP. The fact that an app is distributed outside of the app store isn't proof that the sky is falling like you're saying will happen. At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. There's no reason other users should be restricted because you think that the spectre of Facebook might lurk in the shadows.

slg 4y ago
>At the end of the day, if you're this afraid of Facebook, you're free to not use it. I guess that is the end of our discussion as there is no way to counter this type of logic other than saying that if you didn't agree with Apple's walled garden policy, you were free to not use Apple devices.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Facebook is not a duopoly service that is a significant factor of everyone's lives, controlling the parts not just in their social life but in the professional, financial, and other parts of life. iOS is.
  - slg 4y ago
    I think you are underrating the power of Meta. There are 3.84 billion Meta users[1] and 1.65 billion Apple users[2]. [1] - https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-platforms-adds-50-million-users-to/ https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/05/03/incredible-meta-pl... [2] - https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-total-number-billion-apple-tim-cook-q1-2021 https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/27/22253162/iphone-users-tot...
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Then it could be argued that if Meta forcibly takes away their apps away from the App Store (or from the Play Store for that matter) then either: 1. Regulators would make a beeline to inspect such a third party app store/the sideloadable binaries they present for irregularities, illicit tracking, data violations, etc. 2. Slap them with anti-competitive monopolistic behavior by engaging in the highly disruptive act of depriving the main App/Play Store users of their apps. Thus, they would be forced by regulator action to host their apps on both their stores and official stores. Regulators aren't too keen on Meta these days, they're not too keen on Big Tech in general, this isn't a vendetta against Apple.
  - elondaits 4y ago
    WhatsApp is 100% needed in countries like mine (Argentina). COVID-19 vaccine appointments came via WhatsApp in Buenos Aires, most people require it for professional reasons, school parent groups and similar happen in WhatsApp, social life requires WhatsApp. Now iOS or Android are interchangeable… nothing demands having one or the other.
    - mariusor 4y ago
      > nothing demands having one or the other That's equally bad though. What happens to people that don't use either?
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        It's safe to assume that, even in developing nations, everyone has a cheap beat-down Android or iPhone. Having a smartphone has become as ubiquitous as having electricity or running water now that nobody questions living without one. It's pretty much a must have. That's why the Apple/Google platform are starting to attract regulators, which is only a good thing.
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  And now (soon) if you decide to, you'll be able to stop using Apple App Store without purchasing a new phone, and apps for the new phone. This encourages free movement between markets and encourages competition. Just because someone has decided they like the Apple App Store now, doesn't mean opinions won't change over time, or that the product doesn't change. Therefore being able to easily change your options is good.
  - slg 4y ago
    There seems to be a disconnect here as you missed the point of this comment. Previously people could choose between an open platform and a platform with a walled garden. In the future, the choice is likely between two open platforms. Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice.
    - rtsil 4y ago
      > Someone who preferred the security, privacy, and simplicity of a walled garden is potentially losing that choice. That someone could still use Apple's app store and just ignore the alternatives, just like the large majority of Android users.
      - slg 4y ago
        >and just ignore the alternatives Unless apps are exclusive to the alternatives like this whole Meta/Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp hypothetical.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        Apocryphon 4y ago
        Which would turn the eye of Sauron that is the European Commission onto Meta for their monopolistic behavior, especially if it's transparently and flagrantly for the purpose of cheap data collection.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  There's a big difference between not using one out of fifty competing social media apps and not using the products from an illegal duopoly. The first is freedom of choice, the second is a lack of choice enabled by illegal business practices that prevent competition through violation of antitrust laws. So you are literally free to choose to use Facebook or not, but if you want to participate in society, use banks, get a job, etc, you are not free to escape the Apple and Google duopoly, because their illegal anticompetitive actions have artificially limited consumer choice.
miohtama 4y ago
It's because Facebook does not take user payments. However I still agree it's a dying boogeyman.
BoorishBears 4y ago
The first time Epic tried to push Fortnite on Android they accidentally introduced a backdoor to every single device that installed their homebrew updater. And we're not talking advanced memory safety exploit, breakout the ROPs "backdoor". They requested permission to install apps, then went on to silently install any apk that was put in a path with 0 verification. It's the kind of lazy mistake that puts on full display the fact that at the end of the day, Epic doesn't care about anything as bold as freedom. They were so giddy to get around the Play Store cut that they couldn't put 5 seconds into thinking about anything besides "how quickly can we roll this thing out to people and get our cash cow back on track?"
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Apple regularly ships backdoors and RCEs in their software. Safari is routinely exploited, and exploits in Safari put every iOS user at risk, because Apple prevents other browser engines from running on iOS. Even Firefox and Chrome on iOS are just reskinned Safari. If users had the option of using a browser with better security and features, an exploit in Safari wouldn't be as big of a threat. Here's a fun figure: exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are more common than those for Android. Consumers should have the choice of running whatever software they want on the devices they own, in part because that gives them the option to use more secure apps than the ones Apple forces all iOS users to use.
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    The idea that whataboutism is the only hallmark of a poorly conceived argument you need to look for picks up another case. If we remove the part where you try and brush of Epic's negligence because "oh yeah?! Apple makes mistakes too!!!" and try to imply that Chrome isn't a massively more lucrative target than Safari... this is just fearmongering about security. Alternative app stores on Android are either F Droid, or crap. And the crap ones vastly outnumber F Droid, and mostly push malware laced versions of the play store, like Aptoide. The ones that don't are bloatware like Samsung's half-baked attempt at an app store, or the Amazon App Store serving up outdated packages so you can enjoy last year's vulnerabilities today. > Here's a fun figure: exploits for iOS are cheaper than exploits for Android because exploits for iOS are more common than those for Android. For 12 of the 15 years they've both existed iOS exploits were more expensive, and unlike now the margin was entire orders of magnitude. I've lead shipped Android products from datasheets. Would not bring up Android in any conversation about security: you don't need fresh backdoors with the culture SoC manufacturers have driven. A quarter of the platform is on versions that stopped getting security updates years ago. That's why I'm perfectly happy with Android being the OS for psuedo-Stallmanists who say things like "Consumers should have the choice of running whatever software they want on the devices they own". It's disappointing that Apple is going to let something that's proven itself to overwhelmingly be used for garbage onto the platform because non-technical people are getting lobbied by companies with an agenda under the guise of "freedom". Let Android be the containment zone for that stuff.
kolinko 4y ago
What? With Epic you cannot just install the game on mac os. You need to install their Epic „store” that will try to run itself each time you start a computer and so on. Exactly the thing that people don’t want on iPhone.
- Dah00n 4y ago
  Which you cannot do on an iPhone. You don't boot it like a PC and apps don't launch when you do restart it. It is another what-if that cannot happen, derailing the discussion.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
> you are free not to use it. No, you are not because facebook is Big. So for instance restaurants, announcements, some news etc will only be on facebook. So this reads like "just don't use any electricity"... technically 'possible' but a completely useless argument.
- ranguna 4y ago
  They are big, but not that big... I haven't used any meta product for a couple years now and I'm only missing the seldom update from a couple of companies. Tbh, I don't miss it that much. However, I can understand some people are "hooked" on it and have stopped looking for alternatives.
- Dah00n 4y ago
  It is trying to derail the conversation comparing Facebook to electricity. You are trying to shoehorn everyone into your chosen way of life as many people don't use Facebook and many avoid all social media like the plague. I don't have Facebook, WhatsApp, Snapchat, etc. and I have no use for it at all. If a restaurant only want customers from Facebook then just don't eat there. It is not like you'll starve if you don't. To me it is no bigger a decision to not use Facebook than what brand of toilet-paper to buy - which shows how biased you are.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    > then just don't eat there But all my local events are on it. So yes I can delete my account… but that amounts to becoming a social outcast.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Log into facebook.com if you're adamant about using Facebook despite being afraid of it.

Apocryphon 4y ago

You're not wrong, but games are probably a unique space where that's the sort of thing that already regularly happens on PCs as well, witness the proliferation in publisher stores over the last few years. AAA studios are simply used to forcing that sort of extractive behavior from users, and users are all too willing to comply. But I don't think there's that much threat for the gaming + mobile market, in the sense that Fortnite aside, I'm pretty sure EA/UbiSoft/Activision Blizzard/etc. don't really have "killer apps" for iOS that would entice a lot of users to use their third party app stores. For all other types of mobile games, Apple Arcade is hard to beat. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30204012 Though perhaps there is a concern if Chinese gacha game makers start making their own stores.

Sebb767 4y ago
> AAA studios are simply used to forcing that sort of extractive behavior from users, and users are all too willing to comply. How so? Steam is still alive and well, while publisher-exclusive stores are slowly disappearing. Sure, Epic Store still exists and has solid market share, but it's arguably more than just a publisher store.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I might be out of date now but aren't there EA Origin, Ubisoft store, Battle.net, and the Microsoft Store, at least? Those publishers carry a good chunk of titles between them. Is the pendulum swinging back against proliferation of game publisher stores? What I just mean is a few years ago this trend started happening, Epic was but one of them trying to break into the prior Steam/GoG landscape.
  - qualudeheart 4y ago
    Those stores are all inferior to Steam. I don't believe the other stores aren’t worse than Steam. They all have a pretty crappy game selection.
    - 4y ago

kobalsky 4y ago

Competition between marketplaces is good. Epic is offering free games and discounts to lure players in all the time. this is excellent for consumers. The problem with goat simulator is 100% on the developer and not some dark pattern imposed by steam. If you have an xbox or ps controller it will work out of the box without steam (provided you have installed the drivers). Steam has a gamepad emulation layer and that's why the dev recommended using it as a launcher for the non-steam game, because any controller will work with it. > I'm guessing you aren't a gamer. > Fortnight Seriously? it's Fortnite

emodendroket 4y ago
Competition for competition’s sake isn’t always good. Netflix is by any standard I can think of a worse product than it used to be. It’s doubtful that the free games thing is sustainable long term; Epic is burning a ton of money to try and establish a toehold.
- kobalsky 4y ago
  Steam is a special case because they set the bar incredibly high while having a monopoly on PC for almost two decades. However, you can't rest easy with a monopoly, even with a BDFL. At some point, Gabe will step down, and Steam will either go sideways or get sold to Microsoft or Google, ending the love story. That's why I buy some games on Epic, to keep Steam on their toes, even though they are still the best option out there. I tell everyone I know to do the same.
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    Well, for my part I’m not going to do that because it’s an inferior product I don’t like using.
- govg 4y ago
  To be honest, streaming is fraught with content restrictions and copyrights. If it was similar to the PC gaming case, then we would be able to watch any show on any platform, minus a few exclusives. That would actually lead to innovation and is good for the end consumer. This is decidedly not the case any more after all the major content owners came out with their own streaming service, and locked others out.

arrosenberg 4y ago

The solution is for Congress to require FRAND (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) licensing on all digital media. Exclusive distribution is anticompetitive. Producers should be required to set a price and terms and any marketplace can carry the item if they pay the price and meet the terms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_and_non-discriminatory_licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_and_non-discriminat...

heavyset_go 4y ago
I can get behind this.
kolinko 4y ago
Woah, that is brilliant
ranguna 4y ago
The way I read that article, people can just refuse to give out licenses.
- arrosenberg 4y ago
  Its a binary choice for content producers. If you sell to one distributor, you have to sell to everyone on the same terms

smsm42 4y ago

Well, that does it. Some people can't play Goat Simulator 3. That definitely proves the whole model of having independent stores in un-viable. I mean, who needs those fancy picture boxes is you can't even play a goat simulator on it without "using steam"? It's just not worth it anymore.

diffeomorphism 4y ago

Not really. There are a few examples, but ubisoft is coming back to steam, gog and humble bundle offer steam keys etc.. It is mostly just EA being EA. And in any case a little inconvenience is a small price to prevent monopolies.

sensanaty 4y ago

>I'm guessing you aren't a gamer. Followed by calling the game "Fortnight" gave me a bit of a chuckle. Most people I know just don't buy anything that isn't on Steam. People only use the Epic store cause they give out free games all the time in a sad attempt to get people to use it more, but most people don't care and would rather stay with Steam (while occasionally redeeming some free games on Epic). As for something like GoG, they give you DRM-free portable installers, so obviously some people like that and occasionally use it instead of Steam.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]