3 ms·

Bro, the post effected positive change (several updated job posts before regulatory bodies were involved), and could have been done with a lot less tact. For ex

Bro, the post effected positive change (several updated job posts before regulatory bodies were involved), and could have been done with a lot less tact. For example, I could have screenshotted or even just mentioned offenders. Maybe the tone wasn't perfect - but isn't it YOUR job to pay attention to what gets posted here? Were you not aware of the labor laws in these states? It isn't something that happened just a couple of times. Get off your high horse, buddy. HN has gone down hill in the last 10yrs and part of that is because of these stupid policies and actions. There's no transparency into what you do. Your words are just words.

dang 4y ago
Hey, I'm sorry. I acknowledge the positive effects of your post, your good intentions, and the fact that you could have been a lot less tactful. I was writing from a place of general irritation and even defensiveness. I wasn't thinking about your point of view or how you would feel reading my general putdowns of this type of post. If I were in your position, I'd be pissed off too. Even after doing this for a long time, I still find myself making unhelpful assumptions. All I can tell you is that I'll continue to work on it.
- roflyear 4y ago
  Sorry for going off. Inappropriate on my part.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Did you consider mailing Dan about this issue before making it an 'Ask HN' post?
    - tptacek 4y ago
      This whole thing is pretty silly, right? The penalties for noncompliance with NYC's law apply to the listing company, not to the board they posted on. If you really think YC companies are deliberately skirting the law, report them to NYC. NYC does a one-time 90-day notice-and-cure, so you can "effect positive change" with listing YC companies without subjecting them to fines, if that's really what you're worried about. I don't see what this has to do with HN, at all.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Exactly, and - assuming a mistake rather than maliciousness should have been the first take. There are 100's if not thousands of rules and regulations companies need to conform to and you should normally at a minimum give them a chance to fix this rather than to right away start yelling about them 'breaking the law', because no CEO that I'm aware of does so willingly (assuming they intend to stay in business and take their responsibilities somewhat seriously). This seems more like an exercise in grandstanding than actual concern.
        tptacek 4y ago
        It's also just so weird to suggest that HN should be policing this. They're fixated on NYC's law, but NYC is more lenient, at least statutorily, than Colorado, which has had this rule for over a year. But NYC and Colorado have different disclosure requirements, as will California and Washington. That's not just down to who needs to disclose (if you have fewer than 5 NYC employees, for instance, you're apparently not obligated to report) but also what you have to disclose. It's not reasonable to suggest that HN should also run an HR practice. Again: totally fair to be irritated at a YC company who lists a noncompliant job. Go report them!
        jacquesm 4y ago
        I would be highly surprised if in any given startup in the first 24 months they were not at least in breach of several laws, especially in the HR domain. Usually this gets fixed during the first fundraising (during legal DD and for a regulated industry compliance review) but your average 3 people in a room start-up trying to get a product out the door will inevitably make mistakes like these - and worse. The GDPR is an easy one to mess up on, local employment law, employment contracts, especially when hiring people remote can be super tricky and if you are in a regulated industry my advice would be to hire a part time compliance officer (and probably an HR professional as well) as soon as you can afford it, it will save a whole raft of problems later on. Regulators are usually more than willing to work with such young companies to get them to become compliant, rather than to throw the book at them at the first opportunity. Given the state of the companies advertising on YC my assumption would be that they are too busy to get to either an MVP or to break even to be acutely aware of all of these compliance issues. One thing YC does is to help the companies with legal support, they probably could give some assistance with making sure that public job ads are compliant either by serving as a clearing house or to offer a set of written guidelines to ensure basic compliance, thus minimizing the risk of accidentally running afoul of the law.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      No, I didn't put a massive amount of thought into the post, I admit. But it is a problem with the HN board here (content is posted here) so I didn't think it was inappropriate to highlight it here. I also don't really expect Dan to moderate this. Seems like it isn't really his job, unless he made the decision to allow that content here to start.

dang 4y ago

Hey, I'm sorry. I acknowledge the positive effects of your post, your good intentions, and the fact that you could have been a lot less tactful. I was writing from a place of general irritation and even defensiveness. I wasn't thinking about your point of view or how you would feel reading my general putdowns of this type of post. If I were in your position, I'd be pissed off too. Even after doing this for a long time, I still find myself making unhelpful assumptions. All I can tell you is that I'll continue to work on it.

roflyear 4y ago
Sorry for going off. Inappropriate on my part.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Did you consider mailing Dan about this issue before making it an 'Ask HN' post?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    This whole thing is pretty silly, right? The penalties for noncompliance with NYC's law apply to the listing company, not to the board they posted on. If you really think YC companies are deliberately skirting the law, report them to NYC. NYC does a one-time 90-day notice-and-cure, so you can "effect positive change" with listing YC companies without subjecting them to fines, if that's really what you're worried about. I don't see what this has to do with HN, at all.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Exactly, and - assuming a mistake rather than maliciousness should have been the first take. There are 100's if not thousands of rules and regulations companies need to conform to and you should normally at a minimum give them a chance to fix this rather than to right away start yelling about them 'breaking the law', because no CEO that I'm aware of does so willingly (assuming they intend to stay in business and take their responsibilities somewhat seriously). This seems more like an exercise in grandstanding than actual concern.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        It's also just so weird to suggest that HN should be policing this. They're fixated on NYC's law, but NYC is more lenient, at least statutorily, than Colorado, which has had this rule for over a year. But NYC and Colorado have different disclosure requirements, as will California and Washington. That's not just down to who needs to disclose (if you have fewer than 5 NYC employees, for instance, you're apparently not obligated to report) but also what you have to disclose. It's not reasonable to suggest that HN should also run an HR practice. Again: totally fair to be irritated at a YC company who lists a noncompliant job. Go report them!
        jacquesm 4y ago
        I would be highly surprised if in any given startup in the first 24 months they were not at least in breach of several laws, especially in the HR domain. Usually this gets fixed during the first fundraising (during legal DD and for a regulated industry compliance review) but your average 3 people in a room start-up trying to get a product out the door will inevitably make mistakes like these - and worse. The GDPR is an easy one to mess up on, local employment law, employment contracts, especially when hiring people remote can be super tricky and if you are in a regulated industry my advice would be to hire a part time compliance officer (and probably an HR professional as well) as soon as you can afford it, it will save a whole raft of problems later on. Regulators are usually more than willing to work with such young companies to get them to become compliant, rather than to throw the book at them at the first opportunity. Given the state of the companies advertising on YC my assumption would be that they are too busy to get to either an MVP or to break even to be acutely aware of all of these compliance issues. One thing YC does is to help the companies with legal support, they probably could give some assistance with making sure that public job ads are compliant either by serving as a clearing house or to offer a set of written guidelines to ensure basic compliance, thus minimizing the risk of accidentally running afoul of the law.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    No, I didn't put a massive amount of thought into the post, I admit. But it is a problem with the HN board here (content is posted here) so I didn't think it was inappropriate to highlight it here. I also don't really expect Dan to moderate this. Seems like it isn't really his job, unless he made the decision to allow that content here to start.