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> Earthers get to walk outside into the light, breathe pure air, look up at a blue sky, and see something that gives them hope. And what do they do? They look p

> Earthers get to walk outside into the light, breathe pure air, look up at a blue sky, and see something that gives them hope. And what do they do? They look past that light, past that blue sky. They see the stars, and they think, 'Mine.' (from The Expanse)

kitsunesoba 4y ago
This is a great quote from a series I love, but I think it’s important to consider other angles. Earth, metaphorically speaking, is humanity’s “cave”. A very nice and comfortable cave of course, the possibility space for the development of our species is bounded by it. It’s in our best interest to develop the ability to venture beyond the cave for increasingly longer periods and eventually become able to live outside of it indefinitely. With this in mind, the moon is too close and convenient for long term self sufficiency to develop. Mars on the other hand is only reasonably accessible once every couple of years or so, which forces the issue of self-sufficiency right out of the gate. The first few decades of human presence there will be focused almost exclusively on self-sufficiency. This is important, because that means it has a far better chance of continuing to exist if/when political will for it wanes. The upper layers of the Venetian atmosphere may seem attractive at first glance but it has several impracticalities, namely having to stay permanently aloft and total inaccessibility of the resources on and below Venus’ surface. Will some take part in efforts to move beyond Earth’s surface with greed as a driving factor? Undoubtedly, but I don’t think it’s a valid reason to not do it.
CamperBob2 4y ago
So? That's what got us out of the caves in the first place. The first words spoken on Mars should be, "Cool. Now, how far is Jupiter from here?"
- idlewords 4y ago
  We've known since Pioneer 11 that Jupiter is a no-go for the type of spaceships that can get to Mars. Too much radiation on the way, and too much around Jupiter. Mars is the end of the line until we can build spacecraft in the 10,000 ton range.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Why? (Not saying you're wrong, just... explain/substantiate your claim.)
    - idlewords 4y ago
      The general problem is cumulative exposure to cosmic rays on long-duration flights. It's not clear if even a Mars mission has acceptable risk, and flights past Mars mean everyone gets a very high risk of cancer and radiation-induced cardiovascular disease. To shield against the high energy component of cosmic rays, you need to wrap the crew compartment in something like a few meters of polyethylene or water. This is far heavier than anything we could launch today, but would work on something like a nuclear pulse rocket (that has a minimum weight requirement!) There's an additional problem around Jupiter, which is what Pioneer 11 discovered. The strong magnetic field causes lethal radiation levels at the inner moons. Again you can solve this by wrapping yourself in crazy amounts of water or plastic, but it's far beyond our capability now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
082349872349872 4y ago
Oye sesata unte beratna; kewe tolowda?

kitsunesoba 4y ago

This is a great quote from a series I love, but I think it’s important to consider other angles. Earth, metaphorically speaking, is humanity’s “cave”. A very nice and comfortable cave of course, the possibility space for the development of our species is bounded by it. It’s in our best interest to develop the ability to venture beyond the cave for increasingly longer periods and eventually become able to live outside of it indefinitely. With this in mind, the moon is too close and convenient for long term self sufficiency to develop. Mars on the other hand is only reasonably accessible once every couple of years or so, which forces the issue of self-sufficiency right out of the gate. The first few decades of human presence there will be focused almost exclusively on self-sufficiency. This is important, because that means it has a far better chance of continuing to exist if/when political will for it wanes. The upper layers of the Venetian atmosphere may seem attractive at first glance but it has several impracticalities, namely having to stay permanently aloft and total inaccessibility of the resources on and below Venus’ surface. Will some take part in efforts to move beyond Earth’s surface with greed as a driving factor? Undoubtedly, but I don’t think it’s a valid reason to not do it.

CamperBob2 4y ago

So? That's what got us out of the caves in the first place. The first words spoken on Mars should be, "Cool. Now, how far is Jupiter from here?"

idlewords 4y ago
We've known since Pioneer 11 that Jupiter is a no-go for the type of spaceships that can get to Mars. Too much radiation on the way, and too much around Jupiter. Mars is the end of the line until we can build spacecraft in the 10,000 ton range.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Why? (Not saying you're wrong, just... explain/substantiate your claim.)
  - idlewords 4y ago
    The general problem is cumulative exposure to cosmic rays on long-duration flights. It's not clear if even a Mars mission has acceptable risk, and flights past Mars mean everyone gets a very high risk of cancer and radiation-induced cardiovascular disease. To shield against the high energy component of cosmic rays, you need to wrap the crew compartment in something like a few meters of polyethylene or water. This is far heavier than anything we could launch today, but would work on something like a nuclear pulse rocket (that has a minimum weight requirement!) There's an additional problem around Jupiter, which is what Pioneer 11 discovered. The strong magnetic field causes lethal radiation levels at the inner moons. Again you can solve this by wrapping yourself in crazy amounts of water or plastic, but it's far beyond our capability now.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

082349872349872 4y ago

Oye sesata unte beratna; kewe tolowda?