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After researching this a bit it's mostly a money and reputation laundering scheme for the elite classes that millions of upper middle class westerners buy into

After researching this a bit it's mostly a money and reputation laundering scheme for the elite classes that millions of upper middle class westerners buy into to smokescreen what's wasted on war and geopolitical efforts to protect various western family dynasties hold on power. Even though it's a future that is grotesquely unfeasible and unwanted for anyone besides the richest 100 people on earth as as ultra decadent projects while 95% of the population on earth lives in societies on their way to collapse from resource depletion and rising inequality.

ultramegachurch 4y ago
This is a shockingly cynical and reductive take on Mars exploration. The enthusiasm for human exploration of the solar system is earnest and valid, and I assure you, not a cog in an international conspiracy. One doesn't have to choose between space exploration and addressing resource depletion/inequality. You can care about both.
- melling 4y ago
  Yes, we could explore the solar system much more quickly and much more cheaply, if we simply leave out the humans. This has been explained repeatedly for decades. There will be more humans on Mars in 100 years, if we skip sending the humans now and develop the technology to automate process first. maybe someone can find Weinberg’s detailed explanation for others to read. https://www.space.com/4357-nobel-laureate-disses-nasa-manned-spaceflight.html https://www.space.com/4357-nobel-laureate-disses-nasa-manned...
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >There will be more humans on Mars in 100 years, if we skip sending the humans now and develop the technology to automate process first. We can't do that anytime soon. We can't even reliably automate most manual labor jobs right now. We can do some neat stuff with robots, but we always need humans supervising them and ready to step in and reset things because the reliability is poor.
- kossTKR 4y ago
  I was a huge sci fi and science nerd 10 years ago and still am, and honestly i would love to go back and care less about how the world works, but to me the very real fascination with "actual scientists" and "actual science" has been overshadowed by the siphoning, the false promises and the cooking of statistics that happens while everyones tax dollars get channeled into a fog somewhere between "external enemies" and technooptimist drivel. The fact is that we could use our money on something real, something tangible like saving earth instead of war machines and false promises while the gini coeffecient goes crazy and public education fails. And i mean this is not just a perspective i've got from researching economics, but from having lots of family in academic science - i've seen how much is about grant money, towing the line and about furthering some state or corporate cause sadly.
  - idlehand 4y ago
    The US military budget is ~3.5% of GDP. It makes up about 10% of all government spending. 90% of your tax money does not go to war machines.
    - moloch-hai 4y ago
      The DoE budget is largely military in nature, too. Be sure to count the spooks' portion, as well.
midoridensha 4y ago
>...millions of upper middle class westerners buy into to smokescreen what's wasted on war and geopolitical efforts to protect various western family dynasties hold on power. All the current active conflicts and threats of armed conflict are being caused by easterners, not westerners. You're about 20 years out-of-date with your complaint of warmongering by westerners.

ultramegachurch 4y ago

This is a shockingly cynical and reductive take on Mars exploration. The enthusiasm for human exploration of the solar system is earnest and valid, and I assure you, not a cog in an international conspiracy. One doesn't have to choose between space exploration and addressing resource depletion/inequality. You can care about both.

melling 4y ago
Yes, we could explore the solar system much more quickly and much more cheaply, if we simply leave out the humans. This has been explained repeatedly for decades. There will be more humans on Mars in 100 years, if we skip sending the humans now and develop the technology to automate process first. maybe someone can find Weinberg’s detailed explanation for others to read. https://www.space.com/4357-nobel-laureate-disses-nasa-manned-spaceflight.html https://www.space.com/4357-nobel-laureate-disses-nasa-manned...
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >There will be more humans on Mars in 100 years, if we skip sending the humans now and develop the technology to automate process first. We can't do that anytime soon. We can't even reliably automate most manual labor jobs right now. We can do some neat stuff with robots, but we always need humans supervising them and ready to step in and reset things because the reliability is poor.
kossTKR 4y ago
I was a huge sci fi and science nerd 10 years ago and still am, and honestly i would love to go back and care less about how the world works, but to me the very real fascination with "actual scientists" and "actual science" has been overshadowed by the siphoning, the false promises and the cooking of statistics that happens while everyones tax dollars get channeled into a fog somewhere between "external enemies" and technooptimist drivel. The fact is that we could use our money on something real, something tangible like saving earth instead of war machines and false promises while the gini coeffecient goes crazy and public education fails. And i mean this is not just a perspective i've got from researching economics, but from having lots of family in academic science - i've seen how much is about grant money, towing the line and about furthering some state or corporate cause sadly.
- idlehand 4y ago
  The US military budget is ~3.5% of GDP. It makes up about 10% of all government spending. 90% of your tax money does not go to war machines.
  - moloch-hai 4y ago
    The DoE budget is largely military in nature, too. Be sure to count the spooks' portion, as well.

midoridensha 4y ago

>...millions of upper middle class westerners buy into to smokescreen what's wasted on war and geopolitical efforts to protect various western family dynasties hold on power. All the current active conflicts and threats of armed conflict are being caused by easterners, not westerners. You're about 20 years out-of-date with your complaint of warmongering by westerners.