6 ms·

> It's nice to see this milestone recognized, even if the funding it still rather small. Just wait until the DoD figures out they can use this for some militar

> It's nice to see this milestone recognized, even if the funding it still rather small. Just wait until the DoD figures out they can use this for some military application and it will get 100x funding overnight.

p_j_w 4y ago
This is already used for nuclear weapons research, which is why it's under Dept. of Energy.
- davrosthedalek 4y ago
  Not really. I mean, yes, nuclear weapons are a thing, but Dept. of Energy supports many many directions not related to nuclear weapons. Physics research is mostly funded by DOE Office of Science or the National Science Foundation.
  - saboot 4y ago
    It's an explicit goal of the NIF to better understand the physics of fusion for weapons research. Not the main one but it's pretty important!
    - davrosthedalek 4y ago
      My point was: NIF would be funded via DOE whether or not it's relevant for weapon research. Sorry for not have been clearer.
      - saboot 4y ago
        If it was already decided to be funded, yes it would have been under DoE. Though I believe the weapons aspect had a very major contribution in deciding for it to be funded at all. It was proposed shortly after the nuclear testing ban and has been a big part in fulfilling that area. I'm not trying to correct you, but adding context for the weapons aspect.
        davrosthedalek 4y ago
        Yes, you are right, the funding decision was probably influenced by the weapons research.
      - zizee 4y ago
        I'm no expert, but I think you have it backwards. My understanding is NIF raison d'etre is weapons research, with a power generation being a secondary concern. It got funded because of weapons research regardless of whether it was relevant to fusion power generation. It may surprise people, but the DOE is the government body that is responsible for nuclear weapons research in the US.
- kortilla 4y ago
  That doesn’t follow. The DOE covers a bunch of energy research that has no relationship to nuclear weapons (e.g. solar).
jameshart 4y ago
Cheap and abundant energy has a multitude of military applications. Peaceful ones too, probably.
davedx 4y ago
We've had thermonuclear weapons (h-bombs) for a long time already. Harnessing the energy in a controlled and sustainable fashion is what's hard.
- TeeMassive 4y ago
  H-bombs use the hydrogen to produce more neutrons which boosts the fission process. It still is a fission bomb.
  - davedx 4y ago
    Nope... "thermonuclear bomb, also called hydrogen bomb, or H-bomb, weapon whose enormous explosive power results from an uncontrolled self-sustaining chain reaction in which isotopes of hydrogen combine under extremely high temperatures to form helium in a process known as nuclear fusion."
    - jboy55 4y ago
      Yes, but if you get into the details... The second stage of a bomb is the fusion in which a cylinder of hydrogen and/or lithium is encased by U-238. The primary stage, a trinity-like a-bomb, forces the cylinder to compress by its x-rays. The fusion reaction creates a bunch of energy, but more importantly a huge amount of neutrons. These neutrons cause the u-238 to undergo fission, which is responsible for a majority of the energy and pretty much all of the fallout.
    - TeeMassive 4y ago
      The fissile "spark plug" inside the fusion material is responsible for the majority of the energy...
  - Analog24 4y ago
    You have it backwards. The fission component is just the "trigger" for the fusion element, which produces the vast majority of the energy release.
    - 4y ago
saboot 4y ago
The appropriate analogy for this technology would be that it may be possible to initiate a thermonuclear weapon without relying on fission at all. Currently we use a fission nuclear bomb just to generate the temperature and pressure needed to start the fusion reaction, same as the one on today's announcement. So far it hasn't proven to be viable, but time will tell.
lambdatronics 4y ago
Uhhh... it's definitely being used for "stockpile stewardship." The fusion crowd went splitsies with the weapons folks to get this funded in the first place.

p_j_w 4y ago

This is already used for nuclear weapons research, which is why it's under Dept. of Energy.

davrosthedalek 4y ago
Not really. I mean, yes, nuclear weapons are a thing, but Dept. of Energy supports many many directions not related to nuclear weapons. Physics research is mostly funded by DOE Office of Science or the National Science Foundation.
- saboot 4y ago
  It's an explicit goal of the NIF to better understand the physics of fusion for weapons research. Not the main one but it's pretty important!
  - davrosthedalek 4y ago
    My point was: NIF would be funded via DOE whether or not it's relevant for weapon research. Sorry for not have been clearer.
    - saboot 4y ago
      If it was already decided to be funded, yes it would have been under DoE. Though I believe the weapons aspect had a very major contribution in deciding for it to be funded at all. It was proposed shortly after the nuclear testing ban and has been a big part in fulfilling that area. I'm not trying to correct you, but adding context for the weapons aspect.
      - davrosthedalek 4y ago
        Yes, you are right, the funding decision was probably influenced by the weapons research.
    - zizee 4y ago
      I'm no expert, but I think you have it backwards. My understanding is NIF raison d'etre is weapons research, with a power generation being a secondary concern. It got funded because of weapons research regardless of whether it was relevant to fusion power generation. It may surprise people, but the DOE is the government body that is responsible for nuclear weapons research in the US.
kortilla 4y ago
That doesn’t follow. The DOE covers a bunch of energy research that has no relationship to nuclear weapons (e.g. solar).

jameshart 4y ago

Cheap and abundant energy has a multitude of military applications. Peaceful ones too, probably.

davedx 4y ago

We've had thermonuclear weapons (h-bombs) for a long time already. Harnessing the energy in a controlled and sustainable fashion is what's hard.

TeeMassive 4y ago
H-bombs use the hydrogen to produce more neutrons which boosts the fission process. It still is a fission bomb.
- davedx 4y ago
  Nope... "thermonuclear bomb, also called hydrogen bomb, or H-bomb, weapon whose enormous explosive power results from an uncontrolled self-sustaining chain reaction in which isotopes of hydrogen combine under extremely high temperatures to form helium in a process known as nuclear fusion."
  - jboy55 4y ago
    Yes, but if you get into the details... The second stage of a bomb is the fusion in which a cylinder of hydrogen and/or lithium is encased by U-238. The primary stage, a trinity-like a-bomb, forces the cylinder to compress by its x-rays. The fusion reaction creates a bunch of energy, but more importantly a huge amount of neutrons. These neutrons cause the u-238 to undergo fission, which is responsible for a majority of the energy and pretty much all of the fallout.
  - TeeMassive 4y ago
    The fissile "spark plug" inside the fusion material is responsible for the majority of the energy...
- Analog24 4y ago
  You have it backwards. The fission component is just the "trigger" for the fusion element, which produces the vast majority of the energy release.
  - 4y ago

saboot 4y ago

The appropriate analogy for this technology would be that it may be possible to initiate a thermonuclear weapon without relying on fission at all. Currently we use a fission nuclear bomb just to generate the temperature and pressure needed to start the fusion reaction, same as the one on today's announcement. So far it hasn't proven to be viable, but time will tell.

lambdatronics 4y ago

Uhhh... it's definitely being used for "stockpile stewardship." The fusion crowd went splitsies with the weapons folks to get this funded in the first place.