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Well the Madoff trustee's were able to see who received payouts from Madoff due to KYC rules. This allowed the trustee to go to people, most of whom were compl

Well the Madoff trustee's were able to see who received payouts from Madoff due to KYC rules. This allowed the trustee to go to people, most of whom were completely innocent, to ask the to give back some of the money they redeemed from Madoff. FTX on the other hand has very few KYC docs so the trustees are left with wallet addresses. Not sure how you contact a wallet address to ask for money back.

coffeebeqn 4y ago
There was also a lot of paper wealth. You can get back your FTT tokens but they’re completely worthless
- panarky 4y ago
  This is a distraction. Billions of dollars and euros went into a black box. Then some magic beans invented out of thin air came out of the black box. Now when we open the black box, the billions of dollars and euros are gone. FTT tokens doesn't explain where the fiat went.
  - coffeebeqn 4y ago
    Yes the real dollars went somewhere. I would guess the majority of them were lost from poor trades by Alameda. Combine that with the fact that a lot of those real dollars were converted in to Crypto schemes which are now down 90%. And their insane spend on houses and politics and who knows what else. I’m waiting anxiously to see what the truth is once we get some real data
kragen 4y ago
madoff operated from 01960 to 02008 kyc is from 02002
- LastTrain 4y ago
  His Ponzi scheme started in 1991. Ponzi schemes are exponential, so more than 90% of the volume was after 2002. What's with the leading zeros?
  - Yahivin 4y ago
    Probably preparing for the year 9999 issue early.
    - naniwaduni 4y ago
      Most systems don't have a Y10k issue: year numbers are variable-width already. Forcing a fixed-width 5-digit representation is creating a Y100k issue.
      - andirk 4y ago
        Never made sense how any software would consider the year value as _two characters_ when an integer works far better. There's even a 0 epoch date for crying out loud.
        bawolff 4y ago
        I was under the impression it was a quirk in cobol.
        kragen 4y ago
        no
        SoftTalker 4y ago
        Early mainframes read data on punch cards or tape files which were character-based (or possibly, binary-coded decimal). Two digits were used for the year to save memory.
        0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
        I think this is a generational divide when computers were significantly more limited. If you look at older data formats, they are nearly all fixed width. Either due to punch cards, memory constraints, performance considerations, or just band wagoning, prematurely optimizing for date representation seems silly.
- notch656a 4y ago
  I've learned to identify a kragen post from the preceding zero.
- roland35 4y ago
  Even if it started before KYC was a law, it's not too hard to imagine that Madoff had better records than FTX which by all accounts was a s$&tshow
- chollida1 4y ago
  You are right about the year KYC came into effect, so good job!! But that makes my point. As of 2002 Madoff had to have clear records of f who he redeemed money to. When the bankruptcy trustee went after people who redeemed they only went back a few years and were able to use those KYC docs they had since 2002 to get the money back.
Eduard 4y ago
> FTX on the other hand has very few KYC docs so the trustees are left with wallet addresses. FTX (US? International? Both?) required KYC during sign-up. Or what do you mean?
- chollida1 4y ago
  I was referring to FTX, not FTX.US
  - from 4y ago
    FTX had KYC as does any exchange with bank accounts. But that doesn’t prevent people from paying nominees for register accounts for them either.
throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
Wouldn't FTX-US be required to KYC all of their customers? I assumed that was the (part of) the reason why these exchanges had us and non us versions. (edit links) https://help.ftx.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027668192-Individual-Account-KYC https://help.ftx.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027668192-Individu... https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360048666713-Account-Tiers-and-Limits https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360048666713-Account-T...

coffeebeqn 4y ago

There was also a lot of paper wealth. You can get back your FTT tokens but they’re completely worthless

panarky 4y ago
This is a distraction. Billions of dollars and euros went into a black box. Then some magic beans invented out of thin air came out of the black box. Now when we open the black box, the billions of dollars and euros are gone. FTT tokens doesn't explain where the fiat went.
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  Yes the real dollars went somewhere. I would guess the majority of them were lost from poor trades by Alameda. Combine that with the fact that a lot of those real dollars were converted in to Crypto schemes which are now down 90%. And their insane spend on houses and politics and who knows what else. I’m waiting anxiously to see what the truth is once we get some real data

kragen 4y ago

madoff operated from 01960 to 02008 kyc is from 02002

LastTrain 4y ago
His Ponzi scheme started in 1991. Ponzi schemes are exponential, so more than 90% of the volume was after 2002. What's with the leading zeros?
- Yahivin 4y ago
  Probably preparing for the year 9999 issue early.
  - naniwaduni 4y ago
    Most systems don't have a Y10k issue: year numbers are variable-width already. Forcing a fixed-width 5-digit representation is creating a Y100k issue.
    - andirk 4y ago
      Never made sense how any software would consider the year value as _two characters_ when an integer works far better. There's even a 0 epoch date for crying out loud.
      - bawolff 4y ago
        I was under the impression it was a quirk in cobol.
        kragen 4y ago
        no
      - SoftTalker 4y ago
        Early mainframes read data on punch cards or tape files which were character-based (or possibly, binary-coded decimal). Two digits were used for the year to save memory.
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
        I think this is a generational divide when computers were significantly more limited. If you look at older data formats, they are nearly all fixed width. Either due to punch cards, memory constraints, performance considerations, or just band wagoning, prematurely optimizing for date representation seems silly.
notch656a 4y ago
I've learned to identify a kragen post from the preceding zero.
roland35 4y ago
Even if it started before KYC was a law, it's not too hard to imagine that Madoff had better records than FTX which by all accounts was a s$&tshow
chollida1 4y ago
You are right about the year KYC came into effect, so good job!! But that makes my point. As of 2002 Madoff had to have clear records of f who he redeemed money to. When the bankruptcy trustee went after people who redeemed they only went back a few years and were able to use those KYC docs they had since 2002 to get the money back.

Eduard 4y ago

> FTX on the other hand has very few KYC docs so the trustees are left with wallet addresses. FTX (US? International? Both?) required KYC during sign-up. Or what do you mean?

chollida1 4y ago
I was referring to FTX, not FTX.US
- from 4y ago
  FTX had KYC as does any exchange with bank accounts. But that doesn’t prevent people from paying nominees for register accounts for them either.

throw_nbvc1234 4y ago

Wouldn't FTX-US be required to KYC all of their customers? I assumed that was the (part of) the reason why these exchanges had us and non us versions. (edit links) https://help.ftx.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027668192-Individual-Account-KYC https://help.ftx.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027668192-Individu... https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360048666713-Account-Tiers-and-Limits https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360048666713-Account-T...