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Man, this is awesome. While my next car will be electric, I will be really, really sad to lose the clutch pedal. Shifting (with a clutch, paddle shifters are st

Man, this is awesome. While my next car will be electric, I will be really, really sad to lose the clutch pedal. Shifting (with a clutch, paddle shifters are stupid) turns driving from a chore into a joy. Losing the clutch is going to turn driving 100% into a chore. I never thought a car manufacturer would actually make a fake EV shifter, and I'm still skeptical this will make it to market in any reasonably-priced car. But a convincing fake clutch pedal/shifter in an EV car would be a massive, massive checkmark in that car's favor.

UncleOxidant 4y ago
I've driven a stick forever. But I won't miss the clutch or the clutch pedal. Less to go wrong. Adding some kind of fake clutch/shifter where one isn't needed only adds more failure points. One of the big advantages of EVs is the simplicity of the drivetrain. This would make it not so simple and thus more prone to breakage. EDIT: Except, I guess in this case when it breaks the car will still function fine because it's not really connected to anything.
- coldpie 4y ago
  > But I won't miss the clutch or the clutch pedal. More power to you! EVs are great and I'm thrilled to see them catching on. But every time I have to drive an automatic I just want to slide into an early grave. No rev matching, no heel-toe downshifting, no holding on to a gear a little too long on an onramp, no deciding whether to downshift up a hill or coast down a hill in higher gear. Autos leave you with only the most mindless parts of driving. Zzzzz. No wonder they're building TVs into the dashboard now.
  - xerox13ster 4y ago
    I tried to explain this at friendsgiving a few weeks ago. I think roads have gotten wider (and speeds higher and vehicles bigger as a result) to make people feel safe because people feel more out of touch with their vehicles now. People can't parallel park, but if you parallel park a few times on a hill in a standard, you _know_ your car. To be clear before I continue: I think all cars should go the way of the dodo and we can and should redesign our societies to not be dependent on them because we have the technology and resources to accomplish such a thing, we just waste them. Manufacturing electric cars IS NOT GOING TO REDUCE OUR FOSSIL FUEL EMISSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never understood how anyone could think that. You have to mine for the batteries, the metal, you have to smelt it, is all that green? What about the energy to smelt it? To charge it? What about the environmental impacts of Lithium refining? What about the oil needed for all the plastic pieces inside? We absolutely need to abandon cars and start thinking realistically about how to accomplish it _yesterday_. But while we live on this highway to a mad max hell scape, there is an argument to be made for standard transmissions and their ability to keep the driver engaged and aware. There really is no time to text and drive, or a scenario where you can entirely check out while moving, as you will have to be aware of what your engine and transmission are doing. In an activity that breeds dissociation and distraction, while also demanding your full attention, a standard transmission is the fidget spinner that keeps you present. At least it does me.
    - KMag 4y ago
      > Manufacturing electric cars IS NOT GOING TO REDUCE OUR FOSSIL FUEL EMISSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never understood how anyone could think that. I think you misspelled "eliminate". Some of the sources of total lifetime emissions from electric cars are different from sources of total lifetime emissions for ICE cars. It's reasonable to believe the sums won't be equal. Power plants don't have size/weight constraints of ICEs, so it's rather easy to get significantly higher efficiency out of them (plus economies of scale). It's not idiotic to think total lifetime emissions will be reduced by producing new EVs instead of new ICE vehicles. (Though, keeping an already manufactured ICE car on the road may likely be better than recycling the car and producing a new EV.)
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  A real transmission, whether manual or auto, would be useful for the same reason it is in an ice. (man it was hard not to say ice engine) Lack of transmission is the main reason so many ev's have stupid 600+ hp ratings, it's required to brute force those times when what you really need is a low gear. Especially hideous to think about is suv's and trucks crawling slowly up steep hills. That is just pouring unholy tonnes of current through the windings just to hold the vehicle almost still, and inch it forward against a totally inappropriate gearing. And more every day, just every random acceleration like from a stop, with any load or tow load. Those are brief so I don't worry about cooking motors, but they are frequent and still need ridiculous overkill in the motor to emulate the normal functionality of any other vehicle when it comes to getting going from a stop. That all is just to say that a transmission of any sort would be useful, and then the choice between manual and traditional hydralic auto and cvt is still the same choice as with an ice. The autos are more convenient and potentially more efficient through superior scavenging/shifting keeping the engine always in it's optimum, but the manual is more efficient through less loss in the train which robs overhead every second of operation, and fewer simpler parts cheaper to make and requiring less maintenance over time (even with needing a clutch once in a great while) Except maybe not the same question as ice. An EV might actually be the one application where a cvt might not be terrible, because an ev can be programmed to strictly never exceed whatever threshhold will wear the band and pulleys too fast, and then you can actually get the value from the magic cvt infinite gears.
leetcrew 4y ago
I too will miss manual transmissions, but I would prefer for manufacturers to lean into the strengths of the new tech, rather than make compromises to emulate the old. this kinda reminds me of how CVTs are often tuned to emulate a conventional automatic. it's always a poor imitation, and it undoes the entire point of a CVT: the ability to maintain optimal rom regardless of wheel speed. if I must drive a vehicle with a CVT, at least let me benefit from its strengths.

UncleOxidant 4y ago

I've driven a stick forever. But I won't miss the clutch or the clutch pedal. Less to go wrong. Adding some kind of fake clutch/shifter where one isn't needed only adds more failure points. One of the big advantages of EVs is the simplicity of the drivetrain. This would make it not so simple and thus more prone to breakage. EDIT: Except, I guess in this case when it breaks the car will still function fine because it's not really connected to anything.

coldpie 4y ago
> But I won't miss the clutch or the clutch pedal. More power to you! EVs are great and I'm thrilled to see them catching on. But every time I have to drive an automatic I just want to slide into an early grave. No rev matching, no heel-toe downshifting, no holding on to a gear a little too long on an onramp, no deciding whether to downshift up a hill or coast down a hill in higher gear. Autos leave you with only the most mindless parts of driving. Zzzzz. No wonder they're building TVs into the dashboard now.
- xerox13ster 4y ago
  I tried to explain this at friendsgiving a few weeks ago. I think roads have gotten wider (and speeds higher and vehicles bigger as a result) to make people feel safe because people feel more out of touch with their vehicles now. People can't parallel park, but if you parallel park a few times on a hill in a standard, you _know_ your car. To be clear before I continue: I think all cars should go the way of the dodo and we can and should redesign our societies to not be dependent on them because we have the technology and resources to accomplish such a thing, we just waste them. Manufacturing electric cars IS NOT GOING TO REDUCE OUR FOSSIL FUEL EMISSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never understood how anyone could think that. You have to mine for the batteries, the metal, you have to smelt it, is all that green? What about the energy to smelt it? To charge it? What about the environmental impacts of Lithium refining? What about the oil needed for all the plastic pieces inside? We absolutely need to abandon cars and start thinking realistically about how to accomplish it _yesterday_. But while we live on this highway to a mad max hell scape, there is an argument to be made for standard transmissions and their ability to keep the driver engaged and aware. There really is no time to text and drive, or a scenario where you can entirely check out while moving, as you will have to be aware of what your engine and transmission are doing. In an activity that breeds dissociation and distraction, while also demanding your full attention, a standard transmission is the fidget spinner that keeps you present. At least it does me.
  - KMag 4y ago
    > Manufacturing electric cars IS NOT GOING TO REDUCE OUR FOSSIL FUEL EMISSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never understood how anyone could think that. I think you misspelled "eliminate". Some of the sources of total lifetime emissions from electric cars are different from sources of total lifetime emissions for ICE cars. It's reasonable to believe the sums won't be equal. Power plants don't have size/weight constraints of ICEs, so it's rather easy to get significantly higher efficiency out of them (plus economies of scale). It's not idiotic to think total lifetime emissions will be reduced by producing new EVs instead of new ICE vehicles. (Though, keeping an already manufactured ICE car on the road may likely be better than recycling the car and producing a new EV.)
Brian_K_White 4y ago
A real transmission, whether manual or auto, would be useful for the same reason it is in an ice. (man it was hard not to say ice engine) Lack of transmission is the main reason so many ev's have stupid 600+ hp ratings, it's required to brute force those times when what you really need is a low gear. Especially hideous to think about is suv's and trucks crawling slowly up steep hills. That is just pouring unholy tonnes of current through the windings just to hold the vehicle almost still, and inch it forward against a totally inappropriate gearing. And more every day, just every random acceleration like from a stop, with any load or tow load. Those are brief so I don't worry about cooking motors, but they are frequent and still need ridiculous overkill in the motor to emulate the normal functionality of any other vehicle when it comes to getting going from a stop. That all is just to say that a transmission of any sort would be useful, and then the choice between manual and traditional hydralic auto and cvt is still the same choice as with an ice. The autos are more convenient and potentially more efficient through superior scavenging/shifting keeping the engine always in it's optimum, but the manual is more efficient through less loss in the train which robs overhead every second of operation, and fewer simpler parts cheaper to make and requiring less maintenance over time (even with needing a clutch once in a great while) Except maybe not the same question as ice. An EV might actually be the one application where a cvt might not be terrible, because an ev can be programmed to strictly never exceed whatever threshhold will wear the band and pulleys too fast, and then you can actually get the value from the magic cvt infinite gears.

leetcrew 4y ago

I too will miss manual transmissions, but I would prefer for manufacturers to lean into the strengths of the new tech, rather than make compromises to emulate the old. this kinda reminds me of how CVTs are often tuned to emulate a conventional automatic. it's always a poor imitation, and it undoes the entire point of a CVT: the ability to maintain optimal rom regardless of wheel speed. if I must drive a vehicle with a CVT, at least let me benefit from its strengths.