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(disclosure: American. I've dealt with a lot of European companies over the years. They're just as sharp as Americans if not more so.) This is an excellent art

(disclosure: American. I've dealt with a lot of European companies over the years. They're just as sharp as Americans if not more so.) This is an excellent article by a European, especially its honesty when concentrating on Europe, which they're familiar with. The parts about how you can't get a mortgage if you're a startup founder, worrying about your pension (!), horrible consequences from bankruptcy, and tax prosecutions from the government are things that many Americans wouldn't think of. Going to a startup here is not seen as a life-risking decision. It goes off the rails when it falls for the touristy "but we have free health care and college!" trope: > It may be good to realize how much of a dystopia the US has become already. Most well-educated Americans leave college under Absolutely Crushing Debt. And this is no ordinary debt – it survives bankruptcy! "Most well-educated Americans"?? What, did you read that "somewhere on the Web"? Stick to what you know.

brnt 4y ago
> "Most well-educated Americans"?? What, did you read that "somewhere on the Web"? Stick to what you know. Well, what do you know? You're not giving any arguments or data. What I know is that there's about 45M Americans who're out a cool 1.7T USD, and that both POTUS and Congress passed a bill called the "American Rescue Plan" to adress this situation. Yeah, it seems to affect most well-educated US adults. Stick to what you know.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Let's look at the data: according to [1], 27.5z of Americans 25 or older have a bachelor's degree. The population, according to Google, is 329.5 million. That gives us 90.6 million with a bachelors. According to [2], we get 38.1 million older than 25 who have some student debt. That works out to 38.1 million, giving us 42%. (I excluded the 24 or younger cohort, only because the Census Bureau did as well). Calculations are shown below. So the statement "Most well-educated Americans" is factually wrong. Isn't it? Whatever you think "most" means, it has to mean "greater than half." [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/bachelors-degree-attainment.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/bachelor... [2] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-statistics/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student... The math: US population 329500000 Percent with bachelor's 0.275 Population with bachelor's 90612500 Age group In millions total 25 to 34 14.9 14900000 35 to 49 14.4 14400000 50 to 61 6.4 6400000 62 and older 2.4 2400000 Total 38100000 Percent with debt 0.420471789
  - twelve40 4y ago
    I agree that "most ... with crushing" is a poorly worded hyperbole. It does seem to be about a half, however. "Among the class of 2020, 55% of bachelor’s degree recipients took out student loans, graduating with an average of $28,400 in federal and private debt."
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      "poorly worded" is one way of putting it. Throw out a ridiculous figure to get attention, and then back off when it's challenged and say "well, it's still a problem!" is a shady tactic. "of recent college grads, 55%" would be more accurate, I guess. Lastly, mean vs. median is a worthwhile topic. The mean debt can be inflated by a cohort of highly-indebted people. The median debt would be more interesting.
vvpan 4y ago
But he is not wrong. In some states the average student debt is $40k [1] and APR is 5%. Anecdotally I have friends (and family members) who seem to be resigned to never paying back their loans or doing so very late, when they are 50 or something like that, and some of them are in well-paid tech jobs. [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-statistics/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student...
- rcarr 4y ago
  Average UK student loan debt is actually greater than in America and, even worse, was even accumulating 12% interest rates earlier this year before the government finally woke the fuck up and did something about it. The loans are better than their US counterparts in that you don't have to repay them until you hit a certain income threshold but once you do, you will then be paying 9% of all your earnings above the threshold on them. Oh and they do eventually get written off - but only after 30 years. Meanwhile the English speaking world scratches its head and wonders why everything is going to shit. https://www.ft.com/content/a1c27f38-0c86-11e6-b0f1-61f222853ff3 https://www.ft.com/content/a1c27f38-0c86-11e6-b0f1-61f222853... https://news.sky.com/story/student-loan-interest-rates-slashed-for-second-time-amid-cost-of-living-crisis-12669607 https://news.sky.com/story/student-loan-interest-rates-slash...

brnt 4y ago

> "Most well-educated Americans"?? What, did you read that "somewhere on the Web"? Stick to what you know. Well, what do you know? You're not giving any arguments or data. What I know is that there's about 45M Americans who're out a cool 1.7T USD, and that both POTUS and Congress passed a bill called the "American Rescue Plan" to adress this situation. Yeah, it seems to affect most well-educated US adults. Stick to what you know.

AlbertCory 4y ago
Let's look at the data: according to [1], 27.5z of Americans 25 or older have a bachelor's degree. The population, according to Google, is 329.5 million. That gives us 90.6 million with a bachelors. According to [2], we get 38.1 million older than 25 who have some student debt. That works out to 38.1 million, giving us 42%. (I excluded the 24 or younger cohort, only because the Census Bureau did as well). Calculations are shown below. So the statement "Most well-educated Americans" is factually wrong. Isn't it? Whatever you think "most" means, it has to mean "greater than half." [1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/bachelors-degree-attainment.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/bachelor... [2] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-statistics/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student... The math: US population 329500000 Percent with bachelor's 0.275 Population with bachelor's 90612500 Age group In millions total 25 to 34 14.9 14900000 35 to 49 14.4 14400000 50 to 61 6.4 6400000 62 and older 2.4 2400000 Total 38100000 Percent with debt 0.420471789
- twelve40 4y ago
  I agree that "most ... with crushing" is a poorly worded hyperbole. It does seem to be about a half, however. "Among the class of 2020, 55% of bachelor’s degree recipients took out student loans, graduating with an average of $28,400 in federal and private debt."
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    "poorly worded" is one way of putting it. Throw out a ridiculous figure to get attention, and then back off when it's challenged and say "well, it's still a problem!" is a shady tactic. "of recent college grads, 55%" would be more accurate, I guess. Lastly, mean vs. median is a worthwhile topic. The mean debt can be inflated by a cohort of highly-indebted people. The median debt would be more interesting.

vvpan 4y ago

But he is not wrong. In some states the average student debt is $40k [1] and APR is 5%. Anecdotally I have friends (and family members) who seem to be resigned to never paying back their loans or doing so very late, when they are 50 or something like that, and some of them are in well-paid tech jobs. [1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-statistics/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student...

rcarr 4y ago
Average UK student loan debt is actually greater than in America and, even worse, was even accumulating 12% interest rates earlier this year before the government finally woke the fuck up and did something about it. The loans are better than their US counterparts in that you don't have to repay them until you hit a certain income threshold but once you do, you will then be paying 9% of all your earnings above the threshold on them. Oh and they do eventually get written off - but only after 30 years. Meanwhile the English speaking world scratches its head and wonders why everything is going to shit. https://www.ft.com/content/a1c27f38-0c86-11e6-b0f1-61f222853ff3 https://www.ft.com/content/a1c27f38-0c86-11e6-b0f1-61f222853... https://news.sky.com/story/student-loan-interest-rates-slashed-for-second-time-amid-cost-of-living-crisis-12669607 https://news.sky.com/story/student-loan-interest-rates-slash...