6 ms·

if you believe China is a dystopian state why would a Chinese tech product that isn't even allowed in it's international form within China not itself "dystopian

if you believe China is a dystopian state why would a Chinese tech product that isn't even allowed in it's international form within China not itself "dystopian" imo the most dystopian thing about TikTok is the fact that China intentionally exports a highly addictive product that they don't allow their own people to use

nequo 4y ago
TikTok does exist in China. It is called Douyin. The reason that they have a separate service domestically is most likely not the addictiveness of it. From the introduction section of Wikipedia's article on TikTok: TikTok and Douyin have almost the same user interface but no access to each other's content. Their servers are each based in the market where the respective app is available.[11] The two products are similar, but their features are not identical. Douyin includes an in-video search feature that can search by people's faces for more videos of them and other features such as buying, booking hotels and making geo-tagged reviews.[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok Edit: I see what you mean. For all intents and purposes, I stand corrected.
- jzmorganchase 4y ago
  This is not true. The recent 60 minutes story specifically says the type of content is completely different because it is heavily moderated in China which is the total opposite of what we see in the US or elsewhere outside of China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY&ab_channel=60Minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY&ab_channel=60Min...
  - time_to_smile 4y ago
    I'm consistently surprised that many people in the tech community treat China as some unknowable country that we only get a few snippets of insight in from our media. If you work in tech, you most certainly have a few Chinese citizens as coworkers and colleagues. Talk to them about what life is like if you're curious, don't rely on "60 minutes". TikTok in China may be moderated but only to keep anything controversial from the government perspective off. I've seen this myth floating that somehow tiktok in China is much more wholesome, which is ridiculous. As far as the ill effects of social media, TikTok is arguably worse in China as it's almost entirely people trying to sell things and make a quick buck, flooded with get rich quick schemes and scams. All of the things mentioned in that 60 minutes video can be found in the US version of TikTok, there is plenty of educational content. The idea that everyone in China is watching scientific experiments on tiktok while its corrupting American youth is ridiculous.
    - jzmorganchase 4y ago
      You're saying China doesn't have a time limit on daily use for children? Or the content that is available to kids vs adults isn't different? There might be some half truths to the 60 minute story but AFAIK the time limit is real and the content available to children is different which is what the piece is referring to. It might be more similar for adults.
    - weinzierl 4y ago
      Do you know if it is possible to access Douyin outside of China? I think it would be an interesting experience to see it first-hand and also I guess the language barrier would no be a huge issue if the content is similar to TikTok.
      - housel 4y ago
        A lot of Douyin content ends up on YouTube Shorts if you know where to look.
      - jzmorganchase 4y ago
        the 60 minutes piece was focused on how they moderate content for kids not everyone eg adult coworkers. compare to the US where there’s no separate experience for kids and there’s no time limit.
      - fragmede 4y ago
        You can just install https://apps.apple.com/app/id440948110 https://apps.apple.com/app/id440948110
        weinzierl 4y ago
        Seems to be Kuaishou, similar but different to Douyin. Surprisingly it works and it doesn't look like I even need to log in to use it. At a first glance the content is disappointingly similar to TikTok. Also, as I expected, with this type of content language is a non-issue. Does anyone know if I can get the real Douyin? A search in the AppStore shows Kuaishou first and TikTok second.
babypuncher 4y ago
Why ban TikTok by name and not by legislating away the specific bad things it does? I don't see anything in this legislation that would affect Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts, both of which are using their own engagement-focused algorithm for recommending content. If being addicting is the reason we don't like TikTok, then why are we OK with it when a domestic company does it? Because Facebook lobbyists don't want that, they just want to eliminate the competition. We don't need to regulate TikTok, we need to regulate Social Media as a whole.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jzmorganchase 4y ago
  Because the biggest concern is still Chinese ownership of US customer data. Not just the addictive features within the app.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    I'm not any more comfortable with Facebook owning that data than the Chinese government. We've already seen the harm that comes from that.
    - jzmorganchase 4y ago
      Ok...so the solution is to allow China to own the data and not more closely regulate how data is stored and used at any social media company that stores US customer data?
    - philwelch 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - worik 4y ago
      Unless you are of Chinese extraction, with relatives still in China, and are politically active. Not a small group, and a very vulnerable group.
lostmsu 4y ago
> imo the most dystopian thing about TikTok is the fact that China intentionally exports a highly addictive product that they don't allow their own people to use This comment made me think that TikTok (and Facebook before it) are somewhat like an attempt at hacker attack on the simulation we live in, where the analogue to the "simulation" is the system where freedom of speech is an absolute law, but the system is running on susceptible components: people, and is therefore vulnerable.
kristopolous 4y ago
China isn't some monolithic automaton. It's a complex society with multi-faceted incongruities and contradictory rationalizations for conflicting piecemeal systems Just Like Every Other Society that has ever existed. It's 4 times the number of people as the US. Imagine having 200 states instead of 50. I mean heck, they have over 300 languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China).
- jzmorganchase 4y ago
  we’re talking about the government not the Chinese people here but nice bad faith response
  - kristopolous 4y ago
    Maybe I'm misreading things ... let me try again based on your initial comment: > if you believe China is a dystopian state why would a Chinese tech product that isn't even allowed in it's international form within China not itself "dystopian" ^^ The classification here as "chinese" tech product is the first issue > imo the most dystopian thing about TikTok is the fact that China intentionally exports a highly addictive product that they don't allow their own people to use ^^ second issue is "china intentionally exports" At least I read this as if there's an assumption there's some centralized bureau of dictats speaking with one voice in orchestrating policy as opposed to an $18 trillion economy with 1.4 billion people consisting of 43 million companies and a parliamentary system with 3155 members representing 10 political parties including 480 independents. Everything is actually a confusing complicated hot mess and I reject such attributions and framings. That's not to say there aren't policies, of course there are. It's more to say that if you are not only describing but also attributing intentionality and goals to an international policy in a way that takes under say, 10 words, I'm going to be suspicious of the accuracy.
    - akomtu 4y ago
      The centralized bureau is called CCP. TikTok's main power is creating associations. For example, CCP may dislike some US politician because he is a trouble for Huawei, so TikTok starts subtly pushing videos that associate that politician with bad stuff. In a few weeks 150 millions US citizens have a strong negative reaction to that politician. TikTok may do the same for targeted high-profile individuals, e.g. family members of congressmen or high rank CIA officers. That is an immense power.

nequo 4y ago

TikTok does exist in China. It is called Douyin. The reason that they have a separate service domestically is most likely not the addictiveness of it. From the introduction section of Wikipedia's article on TikTok: TikTok and Douyin have almost the same user interface but no access to each other's content. Their servers are each based in the market where the respective app is available.[11] The two products are similar, but their features are not identical. Douyin includes an in-video search feature that can search by people's faces for more videos of them and other features such as buying, booking hotels and making geo-tagged reviews.[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok Edit: I see what you mean. For all intents and purposes, I stand corrected.

jzmorganchase 4y ago
This is not true. The recent 60 minutes story specifically says the type of content is completely different because it is heavily moderated in China which is the total opposite of what we see in the US or elsewhere outside of China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY&ab_channel=60Minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY&ab_channel=60Min...
- time_to_smile 4y ago
  I'm consistently surprised that many people in the tech community treat China as some unknowable country that we only get a few snippets of insight in from our media. If you work in tech, you most certainly have a few Chinese citizens as coworkers and colleagues. Talk to them about what life is like if you're curious, don't rely on "60 minutes". TikTok in China may be moderated but only to keep anything controversial from the government perspective off. I've seen this myth floating that somehow tiktok in China is much more wholesome, which is ridiculous. As far as the ill effects of social media, TikTok is arguably worse in China as it's almost entirely people trying to sell things and make a quick buck, flooded with get rich quick schemes and scams. All of the things mentioned in that 60 minutes video can be found in the US version of TikTok, there is plenty of educational content. The idea that everyone in China is watching scientific experiments on tiktok while its corrupting American youth is ridiculous.
  - jzmorganchase 4y ago
    You're saying China doesn't have a time limit on daily use for children? Or the content that is available to kids vs adults isn't different? There might be some half truths to the 60 minute story but AFAIK the time limit is real and the content available to children is different which is what the piece is referring to. It might be more similar for adults.
  - weinzierl 4y ago
    Do you know if it is possible to access Douyin outside of China? I think it would be an interesting experience to see it first-hand and also I guess the language barrier would no be a huge issue if the content is similar to TikTok.
    - housel 4y ago
      A lot of Douyin content ends up on YouTube Shorts if you know where to look.
    - jzmorganchase 4y ago
      the 60 minutes piece was focused on how they moderate content for kids not everyone eg adult coworkers. compare to the US where there’s no separate experience for kids and there’s no time limit.
    - fragmede 4y ago
      You can just install https://apps.apple.com/app/id440948110 https://apps.apple.com/app/id440948110
      - weinzierl 4y ago
        Seems to be Kuaishou, similar but different to Douyin. Surprisingly it works and it doesn't look like I even need to log in to use it. At a first glance the content is disappointingly similar to TikTok. Also, as I expected, with this type of content language is a non-issue. Does anyone know if I can get the real Douyin? A search in the AppStore shows Kuaishou first and TikTok second.

babypuncher 4y ago

Why ban TikTok by name and not by legislating away the specific bad things it does? I don't see anything in this legislation that would affect Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts, both of which are using their own engagement-focused algorithm for recommending content. If being addicting is the reason we don't like TikTok, then why are we OK with it when a domestic company does it? Because Facebook lobbyists don't want that, they just want to eliminate the competition. We don't need to regulate TikTok, we need to regulate Social Media as a whole.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jzmorganchase 4y ago
Because the biggest concern is still Chinese ownership of US customer data. Not just the addictive features within the app.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I'm not any more comfortable with Facebook owning that data than the Chinese government. We've already seen the harm that comes from that.
  - jzmorganchase 4y ago
    Ok...so the solution is to allow China to own the data and not more closely regulate how data is stored and used at any social media company that stores US customer data?
  - philwelch 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - worik 4y ago
    Unless you are of Chinese extraction, with relatives still in China, and are politically active. Not a small group, and a very vulnerable group.

lostmsu 4y ago

> imo the most dystopian thing about TikTok is the fact that China intentionally exports a highly addictive product that they don't allow their own people to use This comment made me think that TikTok (and Facebook before it) are somewhat like an attempt at hacker attack on the simulation we live in, where the analogue to the "simulation" is the system where freedom of speech is an absolute law, but the system is running on susceptible components: people, and is therefore vulnerable.

kristopolous 4y ago

China isn't some monolithic automaton. It's a complex society with multi-faceted incongruities and contradictory rationalizations for conflicting piecemeal systems Just Like Every Other Society that has ever existed. It's 4 times the number of people as the US. Imagine having 200 states instead of 50. I mean heck, they have over 300 languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China).

jzmorganchase 4y ago
we’re talking about the government not the Chinese people here but nice bad faith response
- kristopolous 4y ago
  Maybe I'm misreading things ... let me try again based on your initial comment: > if you believe China is a dystopian state why would a Chinese tech product that isn't even allowed in it's international form within China not itself "dystopian" ^^ The classification here as "chinese" tech product is the first issue > imo the most dystopian thing about TikTok is the fact that China intentionally exports a highly addictive product that they don't allow their own people to use ^^ second issue is "china intentionally exports" At least I read this as if there's an assumption there's some centralized bureau of dictats speaking with one voice in orchestrating policy as opposed to an $18 trillion economy with 1.4 billion people consisting of 43 million companies and a parliamentary system with 3155 members representing 10 political parties including 480 independents. Everything is actually a confusing complicated hot mess and I reject such attributions and framings. That's not to say there aren't policies, of course there are. It's more to say that if you are not only describing but also attributing intentionality and goals to an international policy in a way that takes under say, 10 words, I'm going to be suspicious of the accuracy.
  - akomtu 4y ago
    The centralized bureau is called CCP. TikTok's main power is creating associations. For example, CCP may dislike some US politician because he is a trouble for Huawei, so TikTok starts subtly pushing videos that associate that politician with bad stuff. In a few weeks 150 millions US citizens have a strong negative reaction to that politician. TikTok may do the same for targeted high-profile individuals, e.g. family members of congressmen or high rank CIA officers. That is an immense power.