3 ms·

Every breakthrough starts from government funded initiatives? Wilbur and Orville Wright disagree.

Kukumber 4y ago
Without the accessibility of their public library, and public workers to guide them, they would have never been able to acquire the required knowledge in aeronautics
- hardnose 4y ago
  Isn't that a bit like saying that every innovation depends upon milk? I guess, technically, every innovation does begin with a baby drinking milk, but it seems like a stretch to attribute the innovation to the milk, rather than to the mind of the individual who may or may not have been fueled by milk?
  - Kukumber 4y ago
    > it seems like a stretch to attribute the innovation to the milk, rather than to the mind of the individual who may or may not have been fueled by milk? What ever it been fueled with, knowledge wasn't created at an individual's birth, it's an accumulation of a collective and shared effort The point i was trying to make in my post is; it always starts from the people, for the people to continue, for the people to achieve a civilizational ascension If we build the means to generate infinite energy for free, then we'll have to ask ourselves if giving that much power to the individual a safe endeavor, or if we should make sure the prospect is for the collective to ascend Thanks to this achievement, many will learn from it and acquire knowledge to pursue that goal, would it be the case if it was a solo for profit effort? i doubt it greatly The open source tech industry thrives because it's a collective and shared effort, funding issue persists but that's due to us, individuals, living civilization's transition, it'll be a solved problem shortly
    - hardnose 4y ago
      >we'll have to ask ourselves if giving that much power to the individual a safe endeavor What's the alternative? Every collective effort is a series of individual efforts.
stonogo 4y ago
I don't think they do, since they started with research done by the Smithsonian Institution.
- hardnose 4y ago
  Do you have any source information for this? As far as I understood, the Wright brothers started out by building hobbyist gliders in consultation with fellow aviation pioneer Octave Chanute. I checked the Wikipedia entry, but the only reference it maintains for the Smithsonian having helped the Wright brothers is that they apparently gave Wilbur an award in 1910, after having tried unsuccessfully to steal credit from him for building the first heavier than air flyer. Somehow I doubt that's the kind of government contribution to innovation to which the previous poster intended to refer.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/wright-brothers/online/fly/1899/letter.cfm https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/wright-brothers/onlin... Wilbur Wright asked for the Smithsonian's aeronautical research. They still have the letter. The very Wikipedia article you're referencing, in the exact paragraph you're talking about, contains the words "Orville Wright, whose brother had received help from the Smithsonian when beginning his own quest for flight." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers#Smithsonian_feud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers#Smithsonian_fe... Sure, the Smithsonian people were assholes about it. That doesn't negate their contribution to the Wright brother's work. Incedentally, in modern timesif you visit the Air and Space Museum you can see the exhibit where they own up to the shabby attempt to promote their late leader over the Wrights. They cover the feud pretty thoroughly -- including having both aircraft.
- carabiner 4y ago
  Yeah but the Wrights were following research from all over the world, including England and Germany. You might as well say that the Wrights were also funded by the British government.
  - 4y ago

Without the accessibility of their public library, and public workers to guide them, they would have never been able to acquire the required knowledge in aeronautics

hardnose 4y ago
Isn't that a bit like saying that every innovation depends upon milk? I guess, technically, every innovation does begin with a baby drinking milk, but it seems like a stretch to attribute the innovation to the milk, rather than to the mind of the individual who may or may not have been fueled by milk?
- Kukumber 4y ago
  > it seems like a stretch to attribute the innovation to the milk, rather than to the mind of the individual who may or may not have been fueled by milk? What ever it been fueled with, knowledge wasn't created at an individual's birth, it's an accumulation of a collective and shared effort The point i was trying to make in my post is; it always starts from the people, for the people to continue, for the people to achieve a civilizational ascension If we build the means to generate infinite energy for free, then we'll have to ask ourselves if giving that much power to the individual a safe endeavor, or if we should make sure the prospect is for the collective to ascend Thanks to this achievement, many will learn from it and acquire knowledge to pursue that goal, would it be the case if it was a solo for profit effort? i doubt it greatly The open source tech industry thrives because it's a collective and shared effort, funding issue persists but that's due to us, individuals, living civilization's transition, it'll be a solved problem shortly
  - hardnose 4y ago
    >we'll have to ask ourselves if giving that much power to the individual a safe endeavor What's the alternative? Every collective effort is a series of individual efforts.

stonogo 4y ago

I don't think they do, since they started with research done by the Smithsonian Institution.

hardnose 4y ago
Do you have any source information for this? As far as I understood, the Wright brothers started out by building hobbyist gliders in consultation with fellow aviation pioneer Octave Chanute. I checked the Wikipedia entry, but the only reference it maintains for the Smithsonian having helped the Wright brothers is that they apparently gave Wilbur an award in 1910, after having tried unsuccessfully to steal credit from him for building the first heavier than air flyer. Somehow I doubt that's the kind of government contribution to innovation to which the previous poster intended to refer.
- stonogo 4y ago
  https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/wright-brothers/online/fly/1899/letter.cfm https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/wright-brothers/onlin... Wilbur Wright asked for the Smithsonian's aeronautical research. They still have the letter. The very Wikipedia article you're referencing, in the exact paragraph you're talking about, contains the words "Orville Wright, whose brother had received help from the Smithsonian when beginning his own quest for flight." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers#Smithsonian_feud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers#Smithsonian_fe... Sure, the Smithsonian people were assholes about it. That doesn't negate their contribution to the Wright brother's work. Incedentally, in modern timesif you visit the Air and Space Museum you can see the exhibit where they own up to the shabby attempt to promote their late leader over the Wrights. They cover the feud pretty thoroughly -- including having both aircraft.
carabiner 4y ago
Yeah but the Wrights were following research from all over the world, including England and Germany. You might as well say that the Wrights were also funded by the British government.
- 4y ago