5 ms·

> "did transmit and cause to be transmitted by wire, radio, and television communication" Note to self: Remember to use only free-space lightwave communication

> "did transmit and cause to be transmitted by wire, radio, and television communication" Note to self: Remember to use only free-space lightwave communications to avoid committing wire fraud. Edit: Removed "fiber" because it looks too much like a wire and avoid being busted by outside1234!

outside1234 4y ago
That's considered "a wire" by the law now :)
- jpmattia 4y ago
  Curses! Foiled again! Does it help that I've now removed the fiber?
  - salawat 4y ago
    Odds are the legal system will converge on a non-technical, highly abstract meaning of "wire" to the effect of "any medium for conveyance of a signal over long distances (where long distances can reasonably be concluded to encompass multiple jurisdictions). This is why Legalese and English are truly seperate beasts linguistically.
    - jpmattia 4y ago
      Alas, it looks like I'll have to use my Maxwellian knowledge for good rather than evil after all.
Kab1r 4y ago
Aren't light waves and radio waves the same phenomenon at different wavelengths?
- jpmattia 4y ago
  Of course, but the fact that they redundantly spell out "radio" and "television" (as though they aren't the same) makes me think we have a good chance of convincing a jury that "light" is something completely different.
  - spookthesunset 4y ago
    And the prosecution will spend an entire day trotting out some physicist in front of the jury saying why light and radio are the same thing. I’d love to hear the defense question the physicist about why they are wrong
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      I think the defense would handle that pretty easily. Question the physicist until things are confusing, get him to repeatedly state that he is not an expert on the law or legal definitions (he is a physicist) and leave the jury thinking "Well, I didn't understand that guy, I'm sure it was some physics thing, but doesn't apply to the law."
- officialjunk 4y ago
  radio is a narrow range of frequencies of light; a subset of light. there's a technicality in there that could still work.
fein 4y ago
Carrier pigeons should still work.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Then you have to worry about falcons, or Blackadder. Smoke signs, maybe... but then you have to worry about the weather and wild fires... Seems they thought that one through!
  - bigwavedave 4y ago
    What about flag signaling? Asking for a friend.
    - three_seagrass 4y ago
      Ok as long as you don't use a halyard, since rope could be considered wire.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- Kubuxu 4y ago
  Pigeons would probably fall under `mail fraud`.
  - egberts1 4y ago
    If the laws of USPS made during 1800s pigeon mail carrier are still on the book, then yeah, mail fraud.
yabones 4y ago
RFC-1149 is the only safe way to commit fraud. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  Unless some stool pigeon testifies against you.
  - lapetitejort 4y ago
    That's when you call in some Goodfeathers [0] to make the problem go away [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZPwdGbxwNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZPwdGbxwNU
- p1necone 4y ago
  Make sure you set the evil bit to true too. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3514 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3514
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
stevenwoo 4y ago
The fact that they named the chat group channel for their executives (SBF, Caroline, others) "Wirefraud" is jawdropping.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Tell me they didn't...
  - CSMastermind 4y ago
    They did, Caroline also made a Tumblr post that said something like, "When I add being feminine to my dating profile should I put it before or after the section on wire fraud?"
    - xwdv 4y ago
      I refuse to believe this. No one uses Tumblr.
      - nashashmi 4y ago
        it works better than twitter
  - totalZero 4y ago
    SBF denied it but the Guardian picked it up. No idea if it's true. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/13/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-signal-wirefraud-chat-alameda https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/13/sam-bankman... https://archive.ph/fUnp3 https://archive.ph/fUnp3
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
anigbrowl 4y ago
did transmit and cause to be transmitted I often wonder why lawyers cling to this archaic form of verbiage, when they could just write 'transmitted, and had others others transmit [...]'.
- politician 4y ago
  "The device transmitted on its own, my client didn't cause the transmission."
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    They could make that argument anyway. The semantic content is identical.
- simplicio 4y ago
  I assume if your trying to prove someone violated a law, it makes sense to use the exact phrasing in the law, rather then paraphrase and leave the defense some possible semantic wiggle room.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

outside1234 4y ago

That's considered "a wire" by the law now :)

jpmattia 4y ago
Curses! Foiled again! Does it help that I've now removed the fiber?
- salawat 4y ago
  Odds are the legal system will converge on a non-technical, highly abstract meaning of "wire" to the effect of "any medium for conveyance of a signal over long distances (where long distances can reasonably be concluded to encompass multiple jurisdictions). This is why Legalese and English are truly seperate beasts linguistically.
  - jpmattia 4y ago
    Alas, it looks like I'll have to use my Maxwellian knowledge for good rather than evil after all.

Kab1r 4y ago

Aren't light waves and radio waves the same phenomenon at different wavelengths?

jpmattia 4y ago
Of course, but the fact that they redundantly spell out "radio" and "television" (as though they aren't the same) makes me think we have a good chance of convincing a jury that "light" is something completely different.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  And the prosecution will spend an entire day trotting out some physicist in front of the jury saying why light and radio are the same thing. I’d love to hear the defense question the physicist about why they are wrong
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    I think the defense would handle that pretty easily. Question the physicist until things are confusing, get him to repeatedly state that he is not an expert on the law or legal definitions (he is a physicist) and leave the jury thinking "Well, I didn't understand that guy, I'm sure it was some physics thing, but doesn't apply to the law."
officialjunk 4y ago
radio is a narrow range of frequencies of light; a subset of light. there's a technicality in there that could still work.

fein 4y ago

Carrier pigeons should still work.

hef19898 4y ago
Then you have to worry about falcons, or Blackadder. Smoke signs, maybe... but then you have to worry about the weather and wild fires... Seems they thought that one through!
- bigwavedave 4y ago
  What about flag signaling? Asking for a friend.
  - three_seagrass 4y ago
    Ok as long as you don't use a halyard, since rope could be considered wire.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Kubuxu 4y ago
Pigeons would probably fall under `mail fraud`.
- egberts1 4y ago
  If the laws of USPS made during 1800s pigeon mail carrier are still on the book, then yeah, mail fraud.

yabones 4y ago

RFC-1149 is the only safe way to commit fraud. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1149

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DonHopkins 4y ago
Unless some stool pigeon testifies against you.
- lapetitejort 4y ago
  That's when you call in some Goodfeathers [0] to make the problem go away [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZPwdGbxwNU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZPwdGbxwNU
p1necone 4y ago
Make sure you set the evil bit to true too. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3514 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3514

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

stevenwoo 4y ago

The fact that they named the chat group channel for their executives (SBF, Caroline, others) "Wirefraud" is jawdropping.

hef19898 4y ago
Tell me they didn't...
- CSMastermind 4y ago
  They did, Caroline also made a Tumblr post that said something like, "When I add being feminine to my dating profile should I put it before or after the section on wire fraud?"
  - xwdv 4y ago
    I refuse to believe this. No one uses Tumblr.
    - nashashmi 4y ago
      it works better than twitter
- totalZero 4y ago
  SBF denied it but the Guardian picked it up. No idea if it's true. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/13/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-signal-wirefraud-chat-alameda https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/13/sam-bankman... https://archive.ph/fUnp3 https://archive.ph/fUnp3

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

anigbrowl 4y ago

did transmit and cause to be transmitted I often wonder why lawyers cling to this archaic form of verbiage, when they could just write 'transmitted, and had others others transmit [...]'.

politician 4y ago
"The device transmitted on its own, my client didn't cause the transmission."
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  They could make that argument anyway. The semantic content is identical.
simplicio 4y ago
I assume if your trying to prove someone violated a law, it makes sense to use the exact phrasing in the law, rather then paraphrase and leave the defense some possible semantic wiggle room.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]