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So 4 counts on wire fraud and then also commodities fraud, securities fraud, money laundering and campaign finance laws. For the moment, if we set aside whether

So 4 counts on wire fraud and then also commodities fraud, securities fraud, money laundering and campaign finance laws. For the moment, if we set aside whether these will be proven, how bad does a stack of charges like this look for him if they are proven?

ladeagaytf 4y ago
DaftDank 4y ago
In legal parlance, he will be "fu*ed."
makestuff 4y ago
From a quick google search (not promising this is 100% accurate, but I searched for sentencing minimums) 1) Wire fraud: 121-151 months 2) Securities fraud: 6-36 months base (there are multipliers apparently) 3) money laundering: 70 month average is all I could find 4) Campaign finance: seems to be more monetary based Not sure how a plea deal/severity of charges would change this though. Ex: when you are committing billions in fraud that probably has different guidelines than the average securities fraud of a few million or whatever.
- tptacek 4y ago
  Fraud is a 2b1.1 crime, so the sentence scales with the "losses" to the victims; you can get +30 levels off that alone, which catapults the sentence into double digits.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    It strikes me as a weakness in our system that this is keyed to the $ amount. You can defraud a person of modest means of $50,000 and wipe them out financially; you could defraud some rich people of $2 billion without it impacting them in the slightest. This strongly incentivizes preying on the weak.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      I agree, it's a weakness (maybe not for the same reasons you give, but who cares). Anyways, my prediction is that if SBF is convicted, he is going away for all time.
    - jamiek88 4y ago
      It is considered . The levels take into account financial hardship caused to any victim.
phone8675309 4y ago
jbverschoor 4y ago
- theCrowing 4y ago
- thiscatis 4y ago
  Nothing because the last one also didn’t face issues. And the one before… You catch my drift.
- batmenace 4y ago
  It's quite possible that as part of the bankruptcy proceedings, some/ all of the donations could be clawed back
- kemotep 4y ago
  Are you implying if I buy ads to promote your candidacy using illegal funds that the election you won is illegitimate? How would we go about enforcing that?
  - jbverschoor 4y ago
    That’s what banks do with normal people or small businesses. Source of capital, AML etc
    - kemotep 4y ago
      Do you have evidence of banks stealing money from depositors and not being prosecuted? We are in a comment section of an announcement of charges against a CEO of a “bank” that did such and will face a lifetime in prison if convicted. Every example of a bank stealing from depositors I can find has people facing consequences. I guess that we would not hear about instances of people getting away with their crimes but that would make it not wide spread and rare or your claim unprovable due to a lack of evidence.
- schnable 4y ago
masterof0 4y ago
Knowing how connected the guy is, I'm guessing he'll only serve a few years at most. I sincerely hope I'm mistaken.
- batmenace 4y ago
  Eh, it feels like he may have donated a lot, but he wasn't crazy popular. Plus, not like he's had a long track record of donations over many years. I am not sure anyone with much influence will stick their neck out for someone like him
  - TrickyRick 4y ago
    And also the money's gone (Probably). It's not like he has tonnes of money hidden away like other rich people on trial, so even if he gets bailed out by being buddies with the right people, it's not like he will make billions in campaign donations again any time soon.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    I agree; politicians have a singular goal -- reelection. Supporting SBF at this point can only hurt. They will not be extending him any favors.
    - cycrutchfield 4y ago
      What do you expect politicians to do with respect to prosecution by the DOJ? Genuinely curious
      - LudwigNagasena 4y ago
        How does political corruption work? We would need to visit a party in Washington DC to be able to describe it precisely, but it probably can be summarized as “one hand washes the other.”
        cycrutchfield 4y ago
likpok 4y ago
It depends on how much the court thinks he stole (of the billions). The US Sentencing Guidelines tops out at around $550 million dollars, which adds 30 levels. Plus some adjustments: 2 for using mass marketing or 4-6 for causing financial hardship (only one of these), 4 for being the leader of the organization. The base for larceny is 6. That gives 36 just based on the money, and up to 46. That's 15 years on the low end, and runs off the end of the table ("life") on the high. In the federal system there is 15% time off for good behavior, so 15 years means 12.75 actually served. I'm assuming here the counts run concurrently or group (which I think is more typical than sequential, and also gives lower numbers). The judge can depart from the guidelines and give a lower sentence but SBF is not in a good place right now. https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual-annotated https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual-annot...

ladeagaytf 4y ago

DaftDank 4y ago

In legal parlance, he will be "fu*ed."

makestuff 4y ago

From a quick google search (not promising this is 100% accurate, but I searched for sentencing minimums) 1) Wire fraud: 121-151 months 2) Securities fraud: 6-36 months base (there are multipliers apparently) 3) money laundering: 70 month average is all I could find 4) Campaign finance: seems to be more monetary based Not sure how a plea deal/severity of charges would change this though. Ex: when you are committing billions in fraud that probably has different guidelines than the average securities fraud of a few million or whatever.

tptacek 4y ago
Fraud is a 2b1.1 crime, so the sentence scales with the "losses" to the victims; you can get +30 levels off that alone, which catapults the sentence into double digits.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  It strikes me as a weakness in our system that this is keyed to the $ amount. You can defraud a person of modest means of $50,000 and wipe them out financially; you could defraud some rich people of $2 billion without it impacting them in the slightest. This strongly incentivizes preying on the weak.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    I agree, it's a weakness (maybe not for the same reasons you give, but who cares). Anyways, my prediction is that if SBF is convicted, he is going away for all time.
  - jamiek88 4y ago
    It is considered . The levels take into account financial hardship caused to any victim.

phone8675309 4y ago

jbverschoor 4y ago

theCrowing 4y ago
thiscatis 4y ago
Nothing because the last one also didn’t face issues. And the one before… You catch my drift.
batmenace 4y ago
It's quite possible that as part of the bankruptcy proceedings, some/ all of the donations could be clawed back
kemotep 4y ago
Are you implying if I buy ads to promote your candidacy using illegal funds that the election you won is illegitimate? How would we go about enforcing that?
- jbverschoor 4y ago
  That’s what banks do with normal people or small businesses. Source of capital, AML etc
  - kemotep 4y ago
    Do you have evidence of banks stealing money from depositors and not being prosecuted? We are in a comment section of an announcement of charges against a CEO of a “bank” that did such and will face a lifetime in prison if convicted. Every example of a bank stealing from depositors I can find has people facing consequences. I guess that we would not hear about instances of people getting away with their crimes but that would make it not wide spread and rare or your claim unprovable due to a lack of evidence.
schnable 4y ago

masterof0 4y ago

Knowing how connected the guy is, I'm guessing he'll only serve a few years at most. I sincerely hope I'm mistaken.

batmenace 4y ago
Eh, it feels like he may have donated a lot, but he wasn't crazy popular. Plus, not like he's had a long track record of donations over many years. I am not sure anyone with much influence will stick their neck out for someone like him
- TrickyRick 4y ago
  And also the money's gone (Probably). It's not like he has tonnes of money hidden away like other rich people on trial, so even if he gets bailed out by being buddies with the right people, it's not like he will make billions in campaign donations again any time soon.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  I agree; politicians have a singular goal -- reelection. Supporting SBF at this point can only hurt. They will not be extending him any favors.
  - cycrutchfield 4y ago
    What do you expect politicians to do with respect to prosecution by the DOJ? Genuinely curious
    - LudwigNagasena 4y ago
      How does political corruption work? We would need to visit a party in Washington DC to be able to describe it precisely, but it probably can be summarized as “one hand washes the other.”
      - cycrutchfield 4y ago

likpok 4y ago

It depends on how much the court thinks he stole (of the billions). The US Sentencing Guidelines tops out at around $550 million dollars, which adds 30 levels. Plus some adjustments: 2 for using mass marketing or 4-6 for causing financial hardship (only one of these), 4 for being the leader of the organization. The base for larceny is 6. That gives 36 just based on the money, and up to 46. That's 15 years on the low end, and runs off the end of the table ("life") on the high. In the federal system there is 15% time off for good behavior, so 15 years means 12.75 actually served. I'm assuming here the counts run concurrently or group (which I think is more typical than sequential, and also gives lower numbers). The judge can depart from the guidelines and give a lower sentence but SBF is not in a good place right now. https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual-annotated https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual-annot...