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A month ago I found a bug in command line utility I wrote in C# and hadn't touched in 8 years. I checked out the project and opened it in Visual Studio. And it

A month ago I found a bug in command line utility I wrote in C# and hadn't touched in 8 years. I checked out the project and opened it in Visual Studio. And it compiled. I fixed the bug and it just worked. End to end it took half an hour. I feel like there is an advantage to libraries and tools managed by adults with long term skin in the game.

hutzlibu 4y ago
As a counter point: I have simple node scripts, that serve the same purpose to me. And there was also the need to fix something 2 days ago in an 8 year old script. Opened the file, changed the code and running it again. Took 5 minutes and it just worked. I don't use js because it is the hot new thing, but rather because it is simple. (But I avoid messy and obscure npm repositories wherever possible for example.)
- yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
  > I don't use js because it is the hot new thing, but rather because it is simple. It infamously isn't. https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    Hm, video arguments are not my take, I did not watch it (yet), but in either case this seems to be opinion. But of course, javascript is so simple, that it is not suitable for complex problems. No (sane) person would ever claim, that it is the right language for every problem.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
      Are you familiar with the No True Scotsman logical fallacy?
      - hutzlibu 4y ago
        Yes, but I do not know, what you are trying to tell me.
        yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
        I am suggesting that you are making exactly this kind of fallacious argument when you say “No (sane) person would ever claim, that it is the right language for every problem.”
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        "in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly" This would be the wiki definition. But where is your falsifying counterexample? You mean the video, which says below: "This talk does not represent anyone's actual opinion. For a more serious take on software, try .."?
        yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
        It's fairly easy to find falsifying counterexamples — it's not such an uncommon opinion. Also I believe the author of the video is clarifying in the statement you quoted that he isn't trying to take a position on the state of the industry.
  - Zpalmtree 4y ago
    Most of these are 'gotchas' that rarely happen in real code because they're all due to implicit type conversions
    - AgentME 4y ago
      Yeah, nothing there affects regular programs even a tenth as bad as say quoting rules and space handling affect average Bash shell scripts.
      - FeistySkink 4y ago
        Wouldn't shellcheck catch most of these?
- vasergen 4y ago
  People always underestimate how stable JS is. I would argue that it is more stable and backward compatible than a lot of backend languages. What is not stable in JS - is a whole ecosystem.
nazgulsenpai 4y ago
You can also patch most classic .NET (4.8 and below) "binaries" in place with something like dnSpy. One example: I had to update a simple command line tool someone else wrote to poll an API that had undergone some changes. Was able to make the changes directly in dnSpy without having to even open Visual Studio. I haven't tried with any of the 5.0+ versions so I don't know if this is still the case.
Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
I've been laughed at for scripting in Java, but I have a bunch of such scripts from 15-20 years ago and guess what, they work out of the box like the first day.
skitter 4y ago
That's how it should work. But of course last week I revisited a project I wrote in C# too, this only 3 years old, and apart from dotnet complaining about the target framework not being supported any more, I couldn't get it working again due to the libraries used.
- metaltyphoon 4y ago
  This makes no sense. If you upgraded your libraries, thats in you to fix it tho.
smrtinsert 4y ago
Same thing with java. Literally pick up where you left off. The issue of not working after some time just isn't an issue.

hutzlibu 4y ago

As a counter point: I have simple node scripts, that serve the same purpose to me. And there was also the need to fix something 2 days ago in an 8 year old script. Opened the file, changed the code and running it again. Took 5 minutes and it just worked. I don't use js because it is the hot new thing, but rather because it is simple. (But I avoid messy and obscure npm repositories wherever possible for example.)

yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
> I don't use js because it is the hot new thing, but rather because it is simple. It infamously isn't. https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  Hm, video arguments are not my take, I did not watch it (yet), but in either case this seems to be opinion. But of course, javascript is so simple, that it is not suitable for complex problems. No (sane) person would ever claim, that it is the right language for every problem.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
    Are you familiar with the No True Scotsman logical fallacy?
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      Yes, but I do not know, what you are trying to tell me.
      - yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
        I am suggesting that you are making exactly this kind of fallacious argument when you say “No (sane) person would ever claim, that it is the right language for every problem.”
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        "in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly" This would be the wiki definition. But where is your falsifying counterexample? You mean the video, which says below: "This talk does not represent anyone's actual opinion. For a more serious take on software, try .."?
        yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
        It's fairly easy to find falsifying counterexamples — it's not such an uncommon opinion. Also I believe the author of the video is clarifying in the statement you quoted that he isn't trying to take a position on the state of the industry.
- Zpalmtree 4y ago
  Most of these are 'gotchas' that rarely happen in real code because they're all due to implicit type conversions
  - AgentME 4y ago
    Yeah, nothing there affects regular programs even a tenth as bad as say quoting rules and space handling affect average Bash shell scripts.
    - FeistySkink 4y ago
      Wouldn't shellcheck catch most of these?
vasergen 4y ago
People always underestimate how stable JS is. I would argue that it is more stable and backward compatible than a lot of backend languages. What is not stable in JS - is a whole ecosystem.

nazgulsenpai 4y ago

You can also patch most classic .NET (4.8 and below) "binaries" in place with something like dnSpy. One example: I had to update a simple command line tool someone else wrote to poll an API that had undergone some changes. Was able to make the changes directly in dnSpy without having to even open Visual Studio. I haven't tried with any of the 5.0+ versions so I don't know if this is still the case.

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago

I've been laughed at for scripting in Java, but I have a bunch of such scripts from 15-20 years ago and guess what, they work out of the box like the first day.

skitter 4y ago

That's how it should work. But of course last week I revisited a project I wrote in C# too, this only 3 years old, and apart from dotnet complaining about the target framework not being supported any more, I couldn't get it working again due to the libraries used.

metaltyphoon 4y ago
This makes no sense. If you upgraded your libraries, thats in you to fix it tho.

smrtinsert 4y ago

Same thing with java. Literally pick up where you left off. The issue of not working after some time just isn't an issue.