4 ms·

Open source emulation scene have similar problems. Some talented devs basically stop to work on open source emulator because of highly successful copycat (here,

by Narann 4y ago

Open source emulation scene have similar problems. Some talented devs basically stop to work on open source emulator because of highly successful copycat (here, RetroArch)[1]. *[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/si2v5s/duckstation_now_officially_dead_github_repository/ https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/si2v5s/duckstati...

EMIRELADERO 4y ago
> because of highly successful copycat (here, RetroArch) Is it a copycat if it publicly discloses the original?
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  Yes? Not sure what you are asking ...
  - Spivak 4y ago
    I mean if you say you’re a fork it would seem like you’re not a copycat anymore but an independent project with a shared history.
    - Ensorceled 4y ago
      I guess it depends on your feelings around the fork ... a project is more than just code; there are things like mind share and community.
      - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
        Great, but that has nothing to do with copycats. A copycat is a product that copies the original and pretends it is the original. You can't release software under an open source model and complain about "copycats" since that's literally what you gave permission for. As long as the licenses are followed, people have the right to do whatever they want with the code.
noirscape 4y ago
RA spats don't really focus on it being a copycat/multisystem "emulator combiner" from my experience (in fact, non-RA stuff with a similar goal like OpenEmu usually doesn't tend to be at the source for people quitting the emudev scene). It's typically problems with maintainer; he's a huge narcissist who pretty much thinks he's the kingmaker of the emulation scene. With the sole exception of MAME and mGBAs conflicts with RA (which respectively are about having extremely old cores in RA & the fact that their PS3 port uses a dubiously legal homebrew SDK that uses components from Sonys own proprietary SDK), the overwhelming majority of spats tend to occur because the maintainer has a bad habit of throwing hissy fits over his personal opinions of emulation. Specifically, the guy gets pissed whenever someone doesn't want to put in extra legwork to support libretro (which due to it being too overengineered is not an insignificant amount of work), gets angry whenever someone licenses out their emulator for a paid device (since RA can't legally be licensed out due to being a mess in terms of licenses) and so on and so forth. It tends to result in said emudev getting a cavalcade of angry IRC messages from the maintainer, backtalking in RetroArch IRC channels and public whining on the RA twitter account/blog (which due to their reach tends to result in users of RA with barely an understanding of the situation sending further angry messages to the emudev) and in at least one notable case, anonymously complaining about other emudevs on 4chan (but being so transparent about it that he was easily identifiable). Just generally really immature stuff.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Yeah, interacting with this guy is not a pleasant experience. Manages to offend and be more offensive than even 4chan. It's sad because libretro is a pretty good idea and RetroArch has nice features like dynamic rate control and a shader stack.
  - noirscape 4y ago
    It's a good idea, but the execution is utterly deficient. RetroArch (the main libretro implementation as well as basically the reference implementation) is overengineered to the point of bordering on unusable. The entire project is riddled with bad design decisions for the sake of extreme modularity, but all this results in is that it's a pain in the neck to configure and customize. Remapping a button in an emulator, a relatively easy task for basically any emulator out there, can result in your entire setup breaking down and because your typical RA install has ~30k files and poor separation of configuration and application components, your only real recourse is to reinstall the entire thing. Ironically, this specific deficiency also why most emulators nowadays have migrated over to using Stenzeks duckstation UI (which itself is based on Dolphins user interface, just better written); it turned out to be well written enough to be reusable across multiple emulators with fairly little modification, while also leaving developers the room to customize certain elements to fit their emulator (something which libretro is really bad at). Libretro mostly got where it is because Twinaphex has enough orbiters to keep all the various cores up to date, even if it takes what amounts to a hostile fork to do so.

by Narann 4y ago

EMIRELADERO 4y ago

> because of highly successful copycat (here, RetroArch) Is it a copycat if it publicly discloses the original?

Ensorceled 4y ago
Yes? Not sure what you are asking ...
- Spivak 4y ago
  I mean if you say you’re a fork it would seem like you’re not a copycat anymore but an independent project with a shared history.
  - Ensorceled 4y ago
    I guess it depends on your feelings around the fork ... a project is more than just code; there are things like mind share and community.
    - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
      Great, but that has nothing to do with copycats. A copycat is a product that copies the original and pretends it is the original. You can't release software under an open source model and complain about "copycats" since that's literally what you gave permission for. As long as the licenses are followed, people have the right to do whatever they want with the code.

noirscape 4y ago

RA spats don't really focus on it being a copycat/multisystem "emulator combiner" from my experience (in fact, non-RA stuff with a similar goal like OpenEmu usually doesn't tend to be at the source for people quitting the emudev scene). It's typically problems with maintainer; he's a huge narcissist who pretty much thinks he's the kingmaker of the emulation scene. With the sole exception of MAME and mGBAs conflicts with RA (which respectively are about having extremely old cores in RA & the fact that their PS3 port uses a dubiously legal homebrew SDK that uses components from Sonys own proprietary SDK), the overwhelming majority of spats tend to occur because the maintainer has a bad habit of throwing hissy fits over his personal opinions of emulation. Specifically, the guy gets pissed whenever someone doesn't want to put in extra legwork to support libretro (which due to it being too overengineered is not an insignificant amount of work), gets angry whenever someone licenses out their emulator for a paid device (since RA can't legally be licensed out due to being a mess in terms of licenses) and so on and so forth. It tends to result in said emudev getting a cavalcade of angry IRC messages from the maintainer, backtalking in RetroArch IRC channels and public whining on the RA twitter account/blog (which due to their reach tends to result in users of RA with barely an understanding of the situation sending further angry messages to the emudev) and in at least one notable case, anonymously complaining about other emudevs on 4chan (but being so transparent about it that he was easily identifiable). Just generally really immature stuff.

matheusmoreira 4y ago
Yeah, interacting with this guy is not a pleasant experience. Manages to offend and be more offensive than even 4chan. It's sad because libretro is a pretty good idea and RetroArch has nice features like dynamic rate control and a shader stack.
- noirscape 4y ago
  It's a good idea, but the execution is utterly deficient. RetroArch (the main libretro implementation as well as basically the reference implementation) is overengineered to the point of bordering on unusable. The entire project is riddled with bad design decisions for the sake of extreme modularity, but all this results in is that it's a pain in the neck to configure and customize. Remapping a button in an emulator, a relatively easy task for basically any emulator out there, can result in your entire setup breaking down and because your typical RA install has ~30k files and poor separation of configuration and application components, your only real recourse is to reinstall the entire thing. Ironically, this specific deficiency also why most emulators nowadays have migrated over to using Stenzeks duckstation UI (which itself is based on Dolphins user interface, just better written); it turned out to be well written enough to be reusable across multiple emulators with fairly little modification, while also leaving developers the room to customize certain elements to fit their emulator (something which libretro is really bad at). Libretro mostly got where it is because Twinaphex has enough orbiters to keep all the various cores up to date, even if it takes what amounts to a hostile fork to do so.