4 ms·

That’s the same kind of thinking that leads to people saying that sitting at a computer isn’t real work, couldn’t possibly be exhausting. It’s not back-breaking

That’s the same kind of thinking that leads to people saying that sitting at a computer isn’t real work, couldn’t possibly be exhausting. It’s not back-breaking work, after all. Their kind of work does come with its own challenges, even if they don’t include the same challenges you’re used to thinking about.

esskay 4y ago
Genuinely curious here as I dont think I have ever watched anyone on twitch. Compared to software dev as an example - a very mentally taxing job, what comparable challenges do twitch streamers have?
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Small: having to deal with a long period of absolutely nothing and constant nagging that you may not be good enough / doing something wrong / etc. Most people do very poorly with prolonged periods of almost no feedback. Large: dealing with managing large amounts of social relationships of a community which, let's just say, likes pushing a lot of fringe demands and just a lot of demands in general. Also having to be 'online' almost all hours, until the point you're big enough to ignore it and take the hit. That's about it. Small streamers don't have communities big enough to have to worry about everything yet, even if they might. Large streamers have the means to be more akin to bosses of small teams than lone workers, offloading minor tasks and instead handling finances (which many still don't, at most having an editor). Large streamers (500+) are far more 'ingrained' than most commenters give it credit for: as long as your quality doesn't drop, you can coast by on what is a very free and easy job, selling out a few times a year. It's getting there that is the problem. And for about any of the points mentioned, you could find a parallel with startups, bosses, freelancers, independent contractors, managers, etc. It's more the combination that is unique than anything else.
  - bernds74 4y ago
    Also - you're performing in front of an audience. This is something that can feel stressful in itself, especially when certain individuals in that audience become difficult to deal with. You need to perform at a high level, but you also need to focus on a live chat, unless you're so big that that has become impossible. Over the longer term you also have the additional problem that you need to keep that audience. What if you're really good at a certain card game that is popular in 2014 and gain a large audience - but then they make changes to it, you get terribly burnt out on it, and would like to do something else, but whenever you do, your viewer count drops massively. Or maybe the successor to a game comes out and turns out poorly, and viewer count for both drops massively afterwards due to a loss of popularity? Your niche can disappear overnight. Sure, if you make it to the top 0.5%, you'll be quite comfortable. If you don't, you'll be living somewhat precariously unless you do it purely as a hobby and treat your 10 regular viewers as a friend group. I tried streaming the game of Go purely for fun for a few weeks. It was an interesting experience. Some very nice interactions with a handful of viewers who tuned in, but also one case of backseating (viewers trying to play the game for you), and the difficulty of concentrating on two different things going on at the same time. I found it demanding.
- ansc 4y ago
  You're a broadcaster host for an entire day producing entertaining content in real-time. I get pressured when I code in front of people, I can see how having to be entertaining in front of a lot of people and have a continuous social media presence is stressful.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Well, it's essentially one man entertainment show, you can't "just play the game", you need to provide entertainment to the viewer. That can be anything from "just" playing the game well and commenting on what is happening, why you're doing this or that etc, thru roleplaying (in games that allow that) to essentially using gaming as background for a bit of comedy Something akin to TV host.... with no guests to bounce the jokes off, and having to do production themselves, for hours at end. And figuring out what people like and how to promote yourself.
- elevader 4y ago
  I'd guess it's similar to a job in the entertainment industry, like being a host of a TV show. You won't get very far by just sitting there playing some games, you have to be entertaining, engage with the audience, provide commentary etc. And do all of this with a happy face/mood for 6-12 hours, preferably every single day. And when you're not streaming you most likely do social media stuff. I know of a streamer who got "big" (enough to earn a living) by playing factorio. At some point he burnt out on the game and tried different things but his audience didn't really care for that and income broke down substantially, so it wasn't sustainable anymore. So he continued playing factorio without actually enjoying that so that he could make a living for his family. Just like a "real" job.
thefz 4y ago
> Their kind of work does come with its own challenges, even if they don’t include the same challenges you’re used to thinking about. You can't be serious. Streaming yourself in a hot tub playing with an inflatable ball is a job? Then it's softcore porn, at best. These people are paid to be literally playing video games.
- auveair 4y ago
  > Streaming yourself in a hot tub playing with an inflatable ball is a job? Then it's softcore porn, at best. If you're not doing it for your own enjoyment, it quickly becomes a job, just like ... porn. Besides, you're glossing over all the interaction with the audience which is very much the work part.
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  Most of the top streamers do a lot more than just playing video games to keep their audience engaged. Or if they are mostly playing, they're probably one of the best in the world at the game.
- hn_user2 4y ago
  Whether it is softcore porn or "playing video games", I don't doubt it is work. It might not be as hard as writing a database, but neither is as hard as digging a trench on a construction site. They are being paid to be entertainers. A majority of people streaming don't get any noticable viewership even though they "play video games" every day. The people getting paid are entertaining (to some segment of the population), and put on a show while they play video games or sit in a hot tub. Video games and the hot tub are just the backdrop to the entertainment. If feel like a quick experiment, I suggest one try watching a 2 viewer stream for 30 minutes, followed by a top stream for 30 minutes. I would wager that time will move quite slowly waiting for 30. minutes while watching the 2 viewer streamer playing the same video game as the top streamer. And while you might not totally enjoy streaming in general, I would guess that watching the top streamer will be a lot easier to endure a 30 minute watch. Should entertainers, actors, and athletes be paid so much? That is a whole other topic, but I see no reason to separate out streamers from any of these other types of positions that are paid to entertain us. You might not find the star athlete of some sports team interesting or worth watching, but millions of other people in your area do find it worth their time and money. Same with streamers.

esskay 4y ago

Genuinely curious here as I dont think I have ever watched anyone on twitch. Compared to software dev as an example - a very mentally taxing job, what comparable challenges do twitch streamers have?

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Small: having to deal with a long period of absolutely nothing and constant nagging that you may not be good enough / doing something wrong / etc. Most people do very poorly with prolonged periods of almost no feedback. Large: dealing with managing large amounts of social relationships of a community which, let's just say, likes pushing a lot of fringe demands and just a lot of demands in general. Also having to be 'online' almost all hours, until the point you're big enough to ignore it and take the hit. That's about it. Small streamers don't have communities big enough to have to worry about everything yet, even if they might. Large streamers have the means to be more akin to bosses of small teams than lone workers, offloading minor tasks and instead handling finances (which many still don't, at most having an editor). Large streamers (500+) are far more 'ingrained' than most commenters give it credit for: as long as your quality doesn't drop, you can coast by on what is a very free and easy job, selling out a few times a year. It's getting there that is the problem. And for about any of the points mentioned, you could find a parallel with startups, bosses, freelancers, independent contractors, managers, etc. It's more the combination that is unique than anything else.
- bernds74 4y ago
  Also - you're performing in front of an audience. This is something that can feel stressful in itself, especially when certain individuals in that audience become difficult to deal with. You need to perform at a high level, but you also need to focus on a live chat, unless you're so big that that has become impossible. Over the longer term you also have the additional problem that you need to keep that audience. What if you're really good at a certain card game that is popular in 2014 and gain a large audience - but then they make changes to it, you get terribly burnt out on it, and would like to do something else, but whenever you do, your viewer count drops massively. Or maybe the successor to a game comes out and turns out poorly, and viewer count for both drops massively afterwards due to a loss of popularity? Your niche can disappear overnight. Sure, if you make it to the top 0.5%, you'll be quite comfortable. If you don't, you'll be living somewhat precariously unless you do it purely as a hobby and treat your 10 regular viewers as a friend group. I tried streaming the game of Go purely for fun for a few weeks. It was an interesting experience. Some very nice interactions with a handful of viewers who tuned in, but also one case of backseating (viewers trying to play the game for you), and the difficulty of concentrating on two different things going on at the same time. I found it demanding.
ansc 4y ago
You're a broadcaster host for an entire day producing entertaining content in real-time. I get pressured when I code in front of people, I can see how having to be entertaining in front of a lot of people and have a continuous social media presence is stressful.
ilyt 4y ago
Well, it's essentially one man entertainment show, you can't "just play the game", you need to provide entertainment to the viewer. That can be anything from "just" playing the game well and commenting on what is happening, why you're doing this or that etc, thru roleplaying (in games that allow that) to essentially using gaming as background for a bit of comedy Something akin to TV host.... with no guests to bounce the jokes off, and having to do production themselves, for hours at end. And figuring out what people like and how to promote yourself.
elevader 4y ago
I'd guess it's similar to a job in the entertainment industry, like being a host of a TV show. You won't get very far by just sitting there playing some games, you have to be entertaining, engage with the audience, provide commentary etc. And do all of this with a happy face/mood for 6-12 hours, preferably every single day. And when you're not streaming you most likely do social media stuff. I know of a streamer who got "big" (enough to earn a living) by playing factorio. At some point he burnt out on the game and tried different things but his audience didn't really care for that and income broke down substantially, so it wasn't sustainable anymore. So he continued playing factorio without actually enjoying that so that he could make a living for his family. Just like a "real" job.

thefz 4y ago

> Their kind of work does come with its own challenges, even if they don’t include the same challenges you’re used to thinking about. You can't be serious. Streaming yourself in a hot tub playing with an inflatable ball is a job? Then it's softcore porn, at best. These people are paid to be literally playing video games.

auveair 4y ago
> Streaming yourself in a hot tub playing with an inflatable ball is a job? Then it's softcore porn, at best. If you're not doing it for your own enjoyment, it quickly becomes a job, just like ... porn. Besides, you're glossing over all the interaction with the audience which is very much the work part.
ZephyrBlu 4y ago
Most of the top streamers do a lot more than just playing video games to keep their audience engaged. Or if they are mostly playing, they're probably one of the best in the world at the game.
hn_user2 4y ago
Whether it is softcore porn or "playing video games", I don't doubt it is work. It might not be as hard as writing a database, but neither is as hard as digging a trench on a construction site. They are being paid to be entertainers. A majority of people streaming don't get any noticable viewership even though they "play video games" every day. The people getting paid are entertaining (to some segment of the population), and put on a show while they play video games or sit in a hot tub. Video games and the hot tub are just the backdrop to the entertainment. If feel like a quick experiment, I suggest one try watching a 2 viewer stream for 30 minutes, followed by a top stream for 30 minutes. I would wager that time will move quite slowly waiting for 30. minutes while watching the 2 viewer streamer playing the same video game as the top streamer. And while you might not totally enjoy streaming in general, I would guess that watching the top streamer will be a lot easier to endure a 30 minute watch. Should entertainers, actors, and athletes be paid so much? That is a whole other topic, but I see no reason to separate out streamers from any of these other types of positions that are paid to entertain us. You might not find the star athlete of some sports team interesting or worth watching, but millions of other people in your area do find it worth their time and money. Same with streamers.