3 ms·

This is the case in France as well, but it's more subtle than that. Engineer ("ingénieur") is both a diploma, a status, and a title. The diploma is regulated

This is the case in France as well, but it's more subtle than that. Engineer ("ingénieur") is both a diploma, a status, and a title. The diploma is regulated by a committee that endorses curriculum for colleges so that they can deliver an engineering degree. It indeed requires some specific training, and not all schools have the endorsement. There _is_ a difference between "I have an MSc in X" and "I am an engineer in X". I think this is what you are referring to. The status can be earned by having the diploma or getting a recognition of skill by experience. It's usually useless in private companies, but opens the door to better social security in public and institutional services. The title (as in job title) is unregulated and can be given to anyone.

MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
Well, in French context, one should also add that "X" is often used as an abbreviation for "École polytechnique" - the most prestigious engineering school in France and one of the top 3 most coveted diplomas one can have in the country overall (probably after ENA and maybe HEC in certain contexts).
- fsckboy 4y ago
  ENA has been closed, replaced by INSP from wikipedia In 2019, President Emmanuel Macron announced he would propose to abolish and replace the ENA. Macron is an ENA graduate himself, but the tight network of ENA graduates influencing the French civil service has been decried by populist protests such as the yellow vests movement as an elite governing class out of touch with the lower social classes. In April 2021, Macron confirmed the closure of the school, calling the closure "the most important reform of the senior public service" since the school's creation in 1945. In January 2022, it has been replaced by the Institut national du service public (INSP).
  - jbn 4y ago
    IMHO you got this slightly wrong: ENA has not been closed, it has merely been renamed to INSP. Which is to say, that there was no true reform in this regard. In the same way business schools are really networks or clubs (there is little learning taking place at BS..), ENA is a club for the highest-ranking civil servants in the country (i.e. no learning happens at ENA/INSP, merely co-opting into the club of those who then should serve the country but instead gut the state for the benefit of their class).
art0rz 4y ago
Thanks. I wasn't aware of the nuance.

MezzoDelCammin 4y ago

Well, in French context, one should also add that "X" is often used as an abbreviation for "École polytechnique" - the most prestigious engineering school in France and one of the top 3 most coveted diplomas one can have in the country overall (probably after ENA and maybe HEC in certain contexts).

fsckboy 4y ago
ENA has been closed, replaced by INSP from wikipedia In 2019, President Emmanuel Macron announced he would propose to abolish and replace the ENA. Macron is an ENA graduate himself, but the tight network of ENA graduates influencing the French civil service has been decried by populist protests such as the yellow vests movement as an elite governing class out of touch with the lower social classes. In April 2021, Macron confirmed the closure of the school, calling the closure "the most important reform of the senior public service" since the school's creation in 1945. In January 2022, it has been replaced by the Institut national du service public (INSP).
- jbn 4y ago
  IMHO you got this slightly wrong: ENA has not been closed, it has merely been renamed to INSP. Which is to say, that there was no true reform in this regard. In the same way business schools are really networks or clubs (there is little learning taking place at BS..), ENA is a club for the highest-ranking civil servants in the country (i.e. no learning happens at ENA/INSP, merely co-opting into the club of those who then should serve the country but instead gut the state for the benefit of their class).

art0rz 4y ago

Thanks. I wasn't aware of the nuance.