5 ms·

93% of prisoners are men[1], so it's pretty common that women do not face justice. [1] https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_gender.jsp https:

• cgy1 4y ago
  Would need to have more information before coming to such a conclusion, such as the proportion of crimes committed by men vs women, the types of crimes committed by men vs women, etc.
  • notch656a 4y ago
    Same when comparing racial disparity in crime/prison.
    • jiscariot 4y ago
      National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) does a pretty good job. It compiles the stats through interviewing victims of crime, so they aren't coming from enforcement branches.
      • notch656a 4y ago
        Aren't there lots of terrible crimes without a victim? Like smoking or growing plants, or owning an NFA restricted firearm item? So looking at victims may not tell the whole picture.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• notdonspaulding 4y ago
  Justice is what happens when people are held accountable for the wrong things they've done. Nothing about justice requires that punishment be meted out in strict accordance with the demographic breakdown of a population except insofar as wrong things are done in strict accordance with the same demographic categories. Maybe you're assuming that to be the case, but I don't think you'll find any evidence to support such a claim.
  • notch656a 4y ago
    Exactly. If black people disproportionately are in prison, maybe that's just justice.
    • woodruffw 4y ago
      This is called "affirming the consequent."
      • notch656a 4y ago
        Exactly. If men are disproportionately in prison, maybe that isn't justice. Why is it ok for 'spaulding to just shut down the argument as "nothing about justice requires that punishment be meted out in strict accordance with demographic breakdown" but suddenly a fallacy when I insert an actual demographic? I knew it would make people upset because well if we're talking about men then no defense is necessary, no woodruffw to the rescue with "affirming the consequent", but if black people cue up the folks with the torches.
        • woodruffw 4y ago
          Nobody has torches out. I'm just pointing out that 'spaulding has made a strictly correct observation. You could have responded to it with an equally valid and interesting observation ("we have ample social evidence that criminalization is gendered"), but you chose to be inflammatory instead.
    • dvngnt_ 4y ago
      uh...
    • lvass 4y ago
      It's not justice, but the same phenomenon. If certain group has a larger tendency to commit crimes, and you have limited time and resource to look for crimes, it's overall more effective (arrest more people and perhaps prevent more crime) to disproportionately target that certain group. Men and blacks do in fact proportionally commit more crime than women and other races, but less so than the rate of incarceration suggests. There are only two ways to prevent this: being super effective and checking everything (police state), or being less effective and arrest less criminals for taking extra steps to arrest in just proportion (there are legit reasons to want this, e.g. it'd be terrible for society if for example white women had the sensation they could commit any crime without punishment. But to what degree is that extra effort worth it?).
• godelski 4y ago
  1) What's the have to do with the conversation? 2) That's not how logic works. Correlation does not equate to causation.
  • yucky 4y ago
    I agree that correlation doesn't equal causation, I pointed it out because it's the exact same argument used to decry racial disparities in the criminal justice system. Either the argument is valid, or it isn't. We can't pick and choose when it fits our beliefs.
    • godelski 4y ago
      You're still oversimplifying things. A large reason people get confused between correlation and causation[0] but rather things that are correlated and connected with a confounder. The problem here is oversimplifying the model. You have to ask a lot more whys. It is fact that men are arrested more than women and fact that black men are arrested more often, as a percentage, than white men. But it is naive to assume that the "man" variable or the "black" variable are causal variables. In fact they are confounders. The argument isn't either "valid or not" in a general sense. The argument needs more nuance and if that's your concern, ask for it and point out where it is lacking. Demand better comments instead of trying a quick mic drop. [0] Most people aren't confused with spurious correlations like: US technology funding vs number of hangings. (99.8% correlated) http://tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations http://tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
      • yucky 4y ago
        For what it's worth, I agree with you. But if you've ever discussed racial disparities in anything you know that asking for more information that might not fit neatly with the established narrative, is likely to just get you called a Nazi or something.
        • godelski 4y ago
          I think you're exaggerating this. No one is going to call you a Nazi for saying that Black men have a lower ability to climb the socioeconomic ladder through traditional legal means and thus have a propensity to seek out other non-legal means. Many seeking social justice will stand by that actually. But you will get called a Nazi if you suggest that the reason for them doing this is because they are black (note: capitalization is subtle but important). That is eugenics and has been disproved. See how the causal factors in these arguments are different? The former is a demonstration of an unfair set of opportunities that disproportionately affects a certain subset of humans while the latter says that the arrests are destined because of genetic makeup. We know one is true and the other is false. If you're making arguments akin to the former and getting called a Nazi, get off Twitter and touch some grass. Talk to some real people. Specifically people of color. But maybe listen first before you open your mouth.
• piyh 4y ago
  Most crime is committed by men too
  • Zircom 4y ago
    Most crime that we have records for to use for studies is committed by men you mean. Who is to say how much crime by women goes unreported and uninvestigated, and therefore has no presence in our statistics.
    • iancmceachern 4y ago
      Yeah but it's not as if there is this huge epidemic of underreported or uninvestigated crimes committed by women. This doesn't account for the statistical difference.
  • yucky 4y ago
    This same argument is used to dispute the racial disparities in the justice system. Is the explanation right in this case but wrong in that. Right in both? Wrong in both?
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• wombatpm 4y ago
  As more and more women break the glass ceiling, we’ll see a higher percentage of white collar crimes being committed by women