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I admittedly did no research, I am just (accurately, I think) passing on the view of the community, which is that Blizzard has all but abandoned the game. How

I admittedly did no research, I am just (accurately, I think) passing on the view of the community, which is that Blizzard has all but abandoned the game. How sure are you of those numbers, in particular how sure are you that they're not including the "value" of the logo, and/or money that actually came from sponsors? FWIW, at your urging I did do a belated search, and the first source I saw shows 1.9M as the entire prize pool for ESL 20-21, not Blizzard's portion. It can't all have come from Blizzard, unless they plaster "Intel" all over everything just to be nice. Look, maybe I undersold it, maybe Blizzard does chip in a non-trivial amount of prize money. But would you agree with my point, which is that Riot spends way more than Blizzard on the trappings of esports, and also that Blizzard used to spend a lot more than they do today? Who do you think pays the LoL casters, and who do you think pays the SC2 casters? And would you also agree that one day LoL's popularity will wane to SC2-like levels, and that the most likely outcome is that it will more or less resemble SC2 in the sense that it is still a real esport with real tournaments and people playing it professionally, but would constitute a "failed esport" in the sense that this article is portraying esports as failing because they don't pack arenas like regular sports?

ilyt 4y ago
You'd be better to compare it to Dota2, although no doubt you're going to get more things wrong.. Dota2 have all levels of competition historically Valve did "just" the big tourmanent while letting various orgs that popped out of the scene to handle them, it feels way more organic vs LoL/Riot approach of having iron grip over everything competitive
- ineptech 4y ago
  That seems unnecessarily combative, considering how minor the thing we're discussing is. But since I'm being called out, a) I meant regular LoL events get at least 200k views; I was emphasizing how high it is compared to SC2, so pointing out that the championships got even more is not disputing that, b) I don't know how much Blizzard spends on tourney money, nor Riot or Valve; but I do follow SC2 casually, and the consensus view among the people who would know about Blizzard certainly seems to be that it has dwindled, and c) I looked, the NFL's twitch channel has 62k subscribers and hasn't streamed in months, but I didn't say "Gotcha!" because when I see something that seems way wrong I like to default to assuming that either I misunderstood or they misspoke, and in either case it hardly seems relevant to this discussion.
  - Kranar 4y ago
    >I don't know how much Blizzard spends on tourney money, nor Riot or Valve; but I do follow SC2 casually, and the consensus view among the people who would know about Blizzard certainly seems to be that it has dwindled, Avoid getting information from biased sources. Gaming communities are notoriously bad when it comes to remaining objective about topics or presenting quantitative data that can be independently verified. >I looked, the NFL's twitch channel has 62k subscribers and hasn't streamed in months, but I didn't say "Gotcha!" That's because NFL games aren't streamed on the NFL Twitch account, they are streamed on the following account: https://www.twitch.tv/primevideo https://www.twitch.tv/primevideo Here's a source that the NFL is viewed by 10.8 million people on Twitch: https://www.marketingdive.com/news/nfls-audience-on-twitch-livestream-rises-45-from-last-year/569601/ https://www.marketingdive.com/news/nfls-audience-on-twitch-l... Relevant quote: "Twitch received 10.8 million views for “Thursday Night Football,” for a total of 2.2 million hours viewing time, per the announcement." Your false assertion about the NFL's Twitch channel is once again, comically false and goes to show that you simply do not understand how to properly research this topic, getting your information from biased sources and based on people's feelings instead of looking up authoritative sources that can be quantifiably verified. I would advise that you refrain from taking that biased misinformation and spreading it further. >in either case it hardly seems relevant to this discussion. Then why did you bring it up? If it was never relevant, why did you decide to waste both of our time by making an issue out of it? This is what I mean about discussing things in good faith, you placed the burden on me to look up information that you sought, and then when I point it out and it turns out that the NFL is wildly popular on Twitch getting 10s of millions of views, you decide to do a 180 and declare that it's not relevant.
    - ineptech 4y ago
      > Then why did you bring it up? I brought up the NFL in response to you saying, "As I write this, there are [not many] people watching SC2 [on twitch]." I meant that casually checking Twitch can give a false impression of something's popularity. I wasn't suggesting the NFL was unpopular. I also thought I made it pretty clear that my response to your comment about NFL viewership was that we were likely misunderstanding each other, as opposed to accusing you of being wrong. Please consider doing the same next time. This has been a very unpleasant conversation.

ilyt 4y ago

You'd be better to compare it to Dota2, although no doubt you're going to get more things wrong.. Dota2 have all levels of competition historically Valve did "just" the big tourmanent while letting various orgs that popped out of the scene to handle them, it feels way more organic vs LoL/Riot approach of having iron grip over everything competitive

ineptech 4y ago
That seems unnecessarily combative, considering how minor the thing we're discussing is. But since I'm being called out, a) I meant regular LoL events get at least 200k views; I was emphasizing how high it is compared to SC2, so pointing out that the championships got even more is not disputing that, b) I don't know how much Blizzard spends on tourney money, nor Riot or Valve; but I do follow SC2 casually, and the consensus view among the people who would know about Blizzard certainly seems to be that it has dwindled, and c) I looked, the NFL's twitch channel has 62k subscribers and hasn't streamed in months, but I didn't say "Gotcha!" because when I see something that seems way wrong I like to default to assuming that either I misunderstood or they misspoke, and in either case it hardly seems relevant to this discussion.
- Kranar 4y ago
  >I don't know how much Blizzard spends on tourney money, nor Riot or Valve; but I do follow SC2 casually, and the consensus view among the people who would know about Blizzard certainly seems to be that it has dwindled, Avoid getting information from biased sources. Gaming communities are notoriously bad when it comes to remaining objective about topics or presenting quantitative data that can be independently verified. >I looked, the NFL's twitch channel has 62k subscribers and hasn't streamed in months, but I didn't say "Gotcha!" That's because NFL games aren't streamed on the NFL Twitch account, they are streamed on the following account: https://www.twitch.tv/primevideo https://www.twitch.tv/primevideo Here's a source that the NFL is viewed by 10.8 million people on Twitch: https://www.marketingdive.com/news/nfls-audience-on-twitch-livestream-rises-45-from-last-year/569601/ https://www.marketingdive.com/news/nfls-audience-on-twitch-l... Relevant quote: "Twitch received 10.8 million views for “Thursday Night Football,” for a total of 2.2 million hours viewing time, per the announcement." Your false assertion about the NFL's Twitch channel is once again, comically false and goes to show that you simply do not understand how to properly research this topic, getting your information from biased sources and based on people's feelings instead of looking up authoritative sources that can be quantifiably verified. I would advise that you refrain from taking that biased misinformation and spreading it further. >in either case it hardly seems relevant to this discussion. Then why did you bring it up? If it was never relevant, why did you decide to waste both of our time by making an issue out of it? This is what I mean about discussing things in good faith, you placed the burden on me to look up information that you sought, and then when I point it out and it turns out that the NFL is wildly popular on Twitch getting 10s of millions of views, you decide to do a 180 and declare that it's not relevant.
  - ineptech 4y ago
    > Then why did you bring it up? I brought up the NFL in response to you saying, "As I write this, there are [not many] people watching SC2 [on twitch]." I meant that casually checking Twitch can give a false impression of something's popularity. I wasn't suggesting the NFL was unpopular. I also thought I made it pretty clear that my response to your comment about NFL viewership was that we were likely misunderstanding each other, as opposed to accusing you of being wrong. Please consider doing the same next time. This has been a very unpleasant conversation.