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Did you actually read the 2009 article? No where in it did he advocate for abolishing democracy. His argument, simplified, is that it isn't possible to maximi

Did you actually read the 2009 article? No where in it did he advocate for abolishing democracy. His argument, simplified, is that it isn't possible to maximize freedom in a democracy. The simplified reason is because everyone can vote themselves bread and circuses until other people's money runs out. He doesn't propose a better solution, instead he seems to be in the camp of "democracy is the worst form of government... Except for everything else" and thinks that freedom is maximized by living in frontiers (cyberspace, outer space, and seasteading). I'm hard pressed to find anything particularly controversial about what he wrote in that article. It's really strange how much people like to demonize those who aren't in their tribe...

clouddrover 4y ago
> Did you actually read the 2009 article? Did you actually read about his 2022 behavior? He busily supported election deniers. Thiel says, “We’re close to a Toto moment, a little dog pulling aside the curtain on the holy of holies only to find there’s nobody there”. And “We always think of democracy as a good thing. But … where do you shift from the wisdom of crowds to the madness of crowds? When does it become a mob, a racket, a totalitarian lie?” His position is that democracy is illegitimate and when he is king everything will be better: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/05/peter-thiel-bankrolling-jd-vance-reactionary-nationalism/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/05/peter-thi...
- claytongulick 4y ago
  Well, you certainly have your mind made up. By the way, the founders were skeptical about democracy too, and weren't sure whether it would work. They tried to mitigate the obvious problems with it (as Thiel points out) by creating a Constitutional Republic instead, dampening the threat of the tyranny of the majority. It's been reasonably successful so far, and has lasted longer than some of them thought it would. Perhaps they should be scorned as well?
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > Well, you certainly have your mind made up. It's not that I've made my mind up, it's that Thiel has made up his. > Perhaps they should be scorned as well? Dumb ideas will always be scorned. That is the correct result.
    - claytongulick 4y ago
      > Dumb ideas will always be scorned. That is the correct result. So the founders had dumb ideas? Or is it the idea of a Constitutional Republic that's dumb? Because it was designed specifically to reduce the threats posed by raw democracy. It was only about 100 years ago that Senate elections were changed to a popular vote (17th amendment). Prior to that they were assigned by the state legislature. Discussing the weaknesses of Democracy is dumb? You must be much smarter than most philosophers, political science scholars and the founders themselves then.
  - brnt 4y ago
    > Well, you certainly have your mind made up. There's only one here ignoring evidence.
    - claytongulick 4y ago
      What evidence would you say I'm ignoring? An opinion piece in the Washington Post? There have been wild claims made in this thread, like Thiel wants to abolish democracy, and that he wants to be a king, etc... Yet I haven't seen any evidence of him saying anything like that. If he has, then be all means, I'd like to see it. But so far the only thing I've seen is partisan cheap shots without any substance.

clouddrover 4y ago

> Did you actually read the 2009 article? Did you actually read about his 2022 behavior? He busily supported election deniers. Thiel says, “We’re close to a Toto moment, a little dog pulling aside the curtain on the holy of holies only to find there’s nobody there”. And “We always think of democracy as a good thing. But … where do you shift from the wisdom of crowds to the madness of crowds? When does it become a mob, a racket, a totalitarian lie?” His position is that democracy is illegitimate and when he is king everything will be better: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/05/peter-thiel-bankrolling-jd-vance-reactionary-nationalism/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/05/peter-thi...

claytongulick 4y ago
Well, you certainly have your mind made up. By the way, the founders were skeptical about democracy too, and weren't sure whether it would work. They tried to mitigate the obvious problems with it (as Thiel points out) by creating a Constitutional Republic instead, dampening the threat of the tyranny of the majority. It's been reasonably successful so far, and has lasted longer than some of them thought it would. Perhaps they should be scorned as well?
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > Well, you certainly have your mind made up. It's not that I've made my mind up, it's that Thiel has made up his. > Perhaps they should be scorned as well? Dumb ideas will always be scorned. That is the correct result.
  - claytongulick 4y ago
    > Dumb ideas will always be scorned. That is the correct result. So the founders had dumb ideas? Or is it the idea of a Constitutional Republic that's dumb? Because it was designed specifically to reduce the threats posed by raw democracy. It was only about 100 years ago that Senate elections were changed to a popular vote (17th amendment). Prior to that they were assigned by the state legislature. Discussing the weaknesses of Democracy is dumb? You must be much smarter than most philosophers, political science scholars and the founders themselves then.
- brnt 4y ago
  > Well, you certainly have your mind made up. There's only one here ignoring evidence.
  - claytongulick 4y ago
    What evidence would you say I'm ignoring? An opinion piece in the Washington Post? There have been wild claims made in this thread, like Thiel wants to abolish democracy, and that he wants to be a king, etc... Yet I haven't seen any evidence of him saying anything like that. If he has, then be all means, I'd like to see it. But so far the only thing I've seen is partisan cheap shots without any substance.